Wife and I just can't seem to make it work!!!

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

This might be a long story but I'll try to condense it if possible. My wife and I are both 31 and have been married now for 8 months. We have known each other for just over a year and we both felt like we were brought together by God. She has been married before (to a christian guy) and divorced after a year (she was 17). She also has 3 kids to 3 different dads, the youngest one (21 months) I have been raising as my own. She has an abused background with 3 different men in her life sexually and physically abusing her from age 4 to 13. She has had 2 years of counselling with this and is currently writing a book to help others deal with abuse and what God can do. I have had a childhood of an agressive dad who told me is was useless and fat and wouldnt amount to anything. I have been running away from this my whole life and its only been since i have been married that God has been working on this with me. I have had a number of relationships in which I have been the nice guy who gets absolutely controlled and down trodden which eventually leads me to being depressed and not being able to cope. On top of this, my father taught me to not let a woman control me and his marriage (which works for them) is about him making decisions and my mum doing it. From this, i have developed a dis-trust in women in general and feeling unloved and not worthwhile i spent time trying to make my life mean something. In times of wayward life, i visited prostitutes. Something i wasnt at all happy about and felt extremely guilty about afterwards, but at the time, it was someone that accepted me (in a very warped way). I had spent a life of going to church but not really knowing God in a personal way. I had never told anyone about the past i had lived. But i have been depressed on and off all my life. So i did some counselling before i got married (with the counsellor my wife worked with) and i felt God pushing me to talk to him about my life. God was also pushing me to tell my wife so about a month out from the wedding i did. Her reaction was huge and it was a mammoth thing for her because of her childhood and how i could treat women like that. She spent a few days praying about it and although she wasnt happy about it, God had told her to marry me and He would work through it with her. 2 weeks out from the wedding, i developed herpes. This also threw a major spanner into the works as she had contracted genital warts at age 4 from her abuser and can vividly remember the ordeal in hospital. She had to work through this and said she would marry me if i had counselling and gave her time to process this through. I didnt like the conditions but i felt like i had no choice, i wanted to marry her so we did. I didnt understand that it could be months before she could be intimate so after a few days (which i thought it would take) i started to ask about making love. She felt pressured and forced and that started a downward spiral. In 8 months we have been intimate 12 times and have been very awkward and she has felt forced into it. I have tried to talk about it but every time she takes it as force and then she says if you force me, it will take me back. But she wont give a time line, and if i ask, she says the more you talk about it, the longer it will take. We have been separated and we have done marriage counselling (with her counsellor which the church recommended). The marriage counselling has been dealing with each others triggers from the past (which is a very real issue with both of us). I believe that God has brought us together for a reason and what we are going through is a part of that process which God wants. What i dont know how to deal with is, i dont think her way of dealing with things is biblical. Any books we read or even in the bible in regards to sex, she says it doesnt apply to us because we arent in a good space. And if i try to show her, she reacts badly and it sets us back. The counsellor even says that i cant force her (Which i agree with) but if she wont even talk about it or find a happy medium, then i dont think its right.I would of thought that trying to find a mutual agreement would be the way to go, but she says she needs time (without any pressure) to process with God, and then she can slowly work things out. She can't work things out with me. I have tried to suggest an older married couple to mentor us in the church but she doesnt want to do that. Now, we just exist. I go to work and come home. We say hi, we do what we need to do. Neither one of us can talk about how we feel without the other getting upset or angry. If have been saying, how can we have a marriage with no spark thinking she might go, well what can we do to help this. A few days ago she said after going to have coffee with an ex boyfriend who she also told me is someone who she has had great sex with (he is also a 13 year friend) that she doesnt have a spark with me and hasnt had since the wedding. (This guy is hard to deal with as i feel inedaquate because she wont come near me, but God said to me that she needs to work with him to draw him back to God.) That killed me and it brought back all the triggers of loving someone and them playing with that and eventually hurting me. We can't talk about what we need to, we dont kiss, we cuddle in bed (on her terms) and a hug every now and again. She also has major allergies so my life which was i have changed to suit her. But i feel like she hasnt changed her to suit me. I have been praying hard out. I have become a lot closer to God in this and that is great. I have been dealing with my anger and that is a good thing too. I have begun to speak in tongues and another good thing. I am totally unsure about what to do to make it work and i dont know how to just exist and either be inward or fight all the time. The kids suffer if we do so we end up just existing which isnt a life either. I would greatly appreciate some godly wisdom. I feel lost and I know i can go to Jesus and i do, but what happens to us in the meantime?

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

Thank you for coming to GT and pouring out your heart.

There are so many things and so many issues you've brought to the forefront here that it is a bit difficult to dissect them all.

Mostly, you bring up all the warning signs and signals that were there flashing brightly in front of your faces going, stop,wait, listen before you get married, yet you chose to move forward anyway. Those little nudges were clues from God that you needed to take things more slowly and perhaps wait awhile longer.

You both bring a lot of junk in your trunk into the equation. Stay on track with the counseling - even some individual stuff. You are going to need accountability for your marriage - a mentor couple is an absolute must.
Left out there on your own to try and work this through is going to be just about impossible. Remember, isolation is great breeding grounds for temptation.

Here's one great article from Growthtrac -
http://www.growthtrac.com/artman/publish/article_569.php

My three favorite books for a husband and wife are:

Every Woman's Marriage by Shannon Etheridge
Every Man's Marriege by Stephen Arterburn
Our Secret Paradise by Jimmy Evans (read this together)

I understand your frustration with intimacy. But keeping track of how many times you've had sex in the past 8 months tells me more about you than you think. It tells me that the focus is on self and what you need more than on your wife's needs - hey, I'm pretty straight honest and forthright about what I think, so I'm laying it out here for you.

When you married 8 months ago, you said it was for life. What has changed in this time that you're thinking about giving it up, the lack of sex? Or because marriage is harder than you thought?

It takes a lot of work and dedication and a willingness to never give up, no matter what. If your current counselor isn't really helping you guys out in the manner that you are seeing progress (seems like you're not), then it's time to find a new counselor.

You cannot change your wife. You can change you. Work on you, work on you being the best husband, servant and Godly leader in your home that you can be. If you do your part, I'm sure your wife will see your heart to serve her and the kids. Your heart change is what can and will save your marriage.

Find that mentor - find a man who is Godly and will pray for you and hold you accountable for your marriage. Have someone in your life who is a truth-teller. Someone who will praise you and lift you up and give you a good swift kick when you're messing up. We all need people like this - it's how we grow as believers in Jesus Christ, as individuals and as a husband or wife.

It's when we hide and keep our sinful little secrets to ourselves that we get ourselves in trouble.

Now that you are married - scripture is pretty clear that you don't have a way out. Sex or no sex.

I don't agree with your wife's withholding sex from you. These were things she should have worked out before getting married. But, it does not give her an excuse to say no. Her heart needs to change in this direction - your bodies are not your own, because in marriage they are to be given to each other as a gift. Thing is - you still need to be careful about her painful past and aware of those things that trigger her. If you share with her that you need her and desire her and find her beautiful and want to grow intimate and close to her, perhaps that will work better than demanding sex when you want it.

Perhaps, God is asking you to be patient and in prayer about his. Perhaps, he has a desire to grow you and use you during this difficult time. Perhaps, he wants you to serve your wife with the heart of Christ, as a servant lover rather than a self-seeking lover. Just maybe he has something in store for you that you can't see right now because of your own pain, anger and your past.

I have lifted you up in prayer this afternoon and I have also prayed for your marriage.

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Thanks for your post. I do agree with what you are saying. I dont want to leave and i dont feel like its the lack of sex thats causing so much pain. I have been going to God and i can see that he has a purpose of working on my triggers as i grow closer to him in this time. I struggle with her insisting that i dont talk about anything and in her time she will come around once she has dealt with things with God. I feel like I am being lead along like a little dog and that triggers me. It's like one way is a trigger for her, or for me. It's very hard to find a middle ground.
It's the fighting and the lack of understanding that is really killing us. If she only knew my heart and saw what i am like (as Jesus does), she wouldnt see me as the enemy. And vice versa. Our triggers are so strong that almost everything in a normal situation wouldnt effect us. We both have had normal relationships before but this marriage is such a strong head butting from day one. I can see God is at work and the ministry that he is revealing to me each day is based upon what we are going through. My wife is also writing a part of the book about our marriage and how we are getting through things. It just feels like we going up a slippery hill and slipping backwards instead of slowly creaping forward. I have been trying to come home and love her despite what happens. I have had major issues with husbands love the wife as christ loves the church. I am working this through with God and it doesnt trigger me as much as it did now. I read ' love and respect' which was a great book and even our counsellor agreed. My wife wanted to read it and started but found it too hard and hasnt picked it up again since. Its very typical of us. I dont feel respected, and she doesnt feel loved. I can see it and I try but i fail. Theres a massive sense of committment in this as I know God wants us to go through this and work through it. I'm just not sure the way we are doing it is right and it feels like we are feeling around in the dark. I have tried to talk to someone on my own and she gets very upset thinking i am going behind her back.
I have been looking for a mentor and i really have been praying to find an older christian couple to mentor us and that we can be accountable to. I feel like God is saying we need to be accountable. I'm just not sure how to break it to my wife without her feeling forced.
I really appreciate your prayer and your advice. I do realise what you are saying about the self seeking thing and i try to think of her needs. I also feel a little bit betrayed by her not thinking about mine. But i know thats no excuse.
thanks.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

I used to go around and around in circles in my marriage.

- One person has to be willing to break the cycle.
- One person has to be willing to stop the arguments.
- One person has to be willing to stop the triggers.
- One person has to be willing to put on "Christ's clothes".
- One person has to be willing to seek accountability with other Christians.
- One person has to be willing to change their behavior.
- One person has to stop looking at the faults of the other and start looing at their own.
- One person has to find the qualities they fell in love with in the other person and concentrate on them.
- One person has been chosen by God for this life-changing task.
- Maybe it's you.

We have several couples we call our "board of directors". They are honest, they are forthright, they encourage us, they tell us the truth when we need to hear it. Sometimes it isn't pretty but they have changed the dynamics of our circles. They helped us stop the cycle.

It's difficult to have others tell you what they see. I would imagine that could be why she doesn't want you talking to others. Isolation is what is so damaging to your marriage. You can't do marriage alone without the help of other Christians.

Love and Respect is an excellent book and it talks about the cycle of circles. She may have found too much truth in the words and that is why she has not picked it up again. Can you say, "I found this book so helpful to me. Can we pick it up again and read it together?" It's really hard to look at own failures in marriage and see face to face the changes God wants us to make in ourselves.

You are fighting a spiritual battle with the Evil One for the survival of your marriage. God created marriage before he created the church, so Satan is all too eager to destroy something that so closely resembles the oneness of God, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It's why he jumps with joy each time a marriage is the midst of trial and is about to be destroyed.

Ephesians 6:10-12 (The Message)

A Fight to the Finish
And that about wraps it up. God is strong, and he wants you strong. So take everything the Master has set out for you, well-made weapons of the best materials. And put them to use so you will be able to stand up to everything the Devil throws your way. This is no afternoon athletic contest that we'll walk away from and forget about in a couple of hours. This is for keeps, a life-or-death fight to the finish against the Devil and all his angels

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Thanks once again for your words of wisdom. I can see what you are saying and I have felt God prompting me to love her despite what is going on and not responding when i feel justified. He is saying to me to be like Jesus and call upon his strength to take all the anger and bitterness and not return it tit for tat. It's going to be a very hard road to bear, but one i can see will bring me closer to God. It will take time but i hope that as she starts to see a change in me, that wil soften her heart.

I have suggested in that way about reading the book, and doing a bible study together but she takes that as a forceful gesture and that triggers her. In everything a suggestion is taken as i'm meaning do this or else regardless of whether i try to reason with her. I can see that God is calling me to take it on the chin and give it to him.

I know if i suggest having a mentor couple to be accountable with that she will feel like its another way i'm forcing her to do what i want. I'm really struggling to direct her in a non confrontational way back to what the word of God says. I have tried to show her before and it made things worse. She has come from a background of everything was force and control so i struggle with knowing the right thing to do and this causes a lot of problems. I will continue to pray about it and ask for the right timing with things to say and a softening of the heart.

I don't believe in what the counsellor is teaching. He is a physcaritrist (spelling) as well as a christian counsellor but he teaches working through a process with God and having no accountabiltity to your wife or husband. So if i make a mistake, and i apoligise and ask for forgiveness. My wife says she forgives me, but then it will take her a few days of being sullen and angry with me before she can move on. She says that she is working this through with God and its part of her process. I can't see the biblical model in this and it worries me. I think we should be getting advise from someone who comes back to the Word of God regardless of how painful it is. I feel if the bible says it black and white, why would you choose not to do it?

God has told me that we will be in ministry together, we will be close and intimate and we will have a fantastic sex life. I guess I'm struggling to see how that will work how we are and whether there needs to be some change from the two of us and direction needed from good counsel to allow this happen.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

If you're not happy with the counselor you have, then it is time to find another Christian counselor.

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Hi,
The problem with that is my wife is very reluctant to go to someone else because she feels she would have to start again with all her childhood stuff and this would set us back. In essence, she feels like we would spend months getting the background of each other before we could work on us. She really believes in this guy and so does our church. He said to me in one of our one of one sessions that he thinks of her as a daughter so I'm not so sure he has the most unbiased opinion.

Our times in counselling have been spent working on me not being forceful and dealing with triggers. We haven't sat down and said. This is what the bible says and lets look at how you can do it.

I was re-reading your posts and just needed to clarify that I am in no way demanding sex from her. I dont even suggest anything in body language or words in that area. The one time i said to her I would love to make love to you, would that be ok? She said please dont ask because it makes me feel terrible telling you no. The problems we have had with her feeling forced is even talking about it.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

How about you going to a separate counselor for yourself? One who will work on your issues with you and perhaps see a different picture. You do not have to share the same counselor as individuals. And... you do not need to share the same counselor for your marital issues.

There are times when words have nothing to do with your response to your wife. Deep heavy sighs, rolling the eyes and grunts go a long way toward telling her how you feel about your sexual relationship. However, words of criticism can do a pretty good job of destroying whatever little affection you may share.

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Hmmm not quite sure how you can work on problems together if you go to separate counsellors.
I do agree with you on the non verbal and the criticism. I have said some stupid things which have hurt and have taken a long time to heal.
Thanks for your wisdom and I'm on my way to renewing my marriage!!!

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

You can go to separate counselors to work out your individual issues.
You do need to come together with one counslor to work on your marriage stuff together.

Let us know how things are going. You do have people here who are praying for you.

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Been really applying some christian principles and I was shocked the first day by not being quiet and making the effort to be happy and make sure i didn't react when triggered by something she would say. The next day was great with feeling really close but as the week continued it tended to go back to lots of effort on my behalf and lots of taking on hers. I will continue to go to God and do it under His Strength.
I really believe we should be working on our marriage especially after such a rocky start and only 9 months into it. My wife feels like we dont have enough time as it is to get things done so she needs time to blob out at night. I dont get home till 6.30pm and by the time i get dinner, and get the kids sorted out, she's ready for bed which means tv and cross stitch till lights out. I mentioned a mentor couple and she said she didnt think we had enough time to fit it in. If i suggest something, she takes it as me trying to control her so it has become easier to say nothing but it doesnt build a strong relationship. She believes in taking things to God individually but that doesnt actually work on us. Should we be working on our relationship by praying, reading the bible and studying marriage books together? I have suggested this, but she said we are different and the marriage books dont apply to our situation. I'm lost as to what to do. Do i just continue doing what i have been and feel alone and lost, or do i try to steer towards doing what i feel the bible says (which i sure to create a feeling of being controlled and forced). I just dont know. I would appreciate some more Godly wisdom.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Talked again today and going to the counsellor tonight. Before we married, she said she needed me to apply no pressure and to get counselling. I asked for a time frame and she said she wouldnt give me one. So i had to agree to her conditions. To me not marrying her was not part of the equation. To her, that was my opportunity to say well i can't do that and not get married. So into the marriage, i stopped pressuring for sex and asking anything about it. It has come to a point now where she wants me to honour the committment i made and not pressure her (in anything). No talking about our marriage, no trying to work things out, no sex talk. Nothing until she has had time to work things through with God. She said i should honour my commmittment i made, but i didnt agree to those conditions. I need to talk things through. She likes to talk to God about things. When i say blue, she hears me say pink. When she says pink, i think she says blue. So we both think we are hearing the same thing and agree to what we hear, but we are always on different tracks. She says again that having a mentor couple would just cause more pressure and she doesnt want that so i have to agree to her terms. She said if i dont agree, then we may as well not be together. It will be interesting to see what the counsellor says tonight. I will be praying towards a middle ground conclusion

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

Requests for things you need from her or need to communicate or work through as a couple are being construed as pressuring her. Letting her work through things in her time, is her way of being able to control the situations that are occuring in your relationship. That's why I said - she's the one doing the controlling. It's frustrating you, so when you try to move on and resolve things - then you are pressuring her. When she believes God has given her an answer, then she'll tell you it's OK.

You're right - this needs to be addressed with your counselor. You're in a viscious cycle of communicating on her terms and conditions. And... she's asked you to do this, which realistically cannot be part of the dynamics of a marriage. It's impossible.

WorkingwithGod · Junior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

I have been detrimental to the breakdown in the aspect of I needed to talk things through to get a resolution where as she needed time to herself to work things out, so the harder i pushed to work things out, the more she backed off. I was dealing with my triggers of rejection so i pushed harder so i didnt have to deal with them. She was triggered by her triggers of being forced so she kept backing away.
The counsellor told me I didnt know how to have a proper relationship and that i needed to stop the force in any sense and let her deal with things in her time. I need to relax and try to have fun. Don't deal with anything for the next two weeks and there is no accountability on her behalf to do anything that i view as being pivital for a normal marriage. When i give her the space to work through her stuff, and give her the goodwill and trust her that she will do the right thing, thats when our marriage will start to work.
Any guidelines and literature relating to marriage is not applicable to our marriage so I'm told. So the choice was at the counsellor. She won't put up with the pressure so I need to stop any form of pressure and force for the next 2 weeks. She will not be in this marriage if i continue.

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