|
|
| Author |
Message |
cjbaldw
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Delaware
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| WorkingwithGod wrote: | | Thanks once again for your words of wisdom. I can see what you are saying and I have felt God prompting me to love her despite what is going on and not responding when i feel justified. |
Working, the trick is to get to the point mentally, emotionally, and especially spiritually, where you can love not despite what is ongoing, but because of what's ongoing. Recognize marriage for what it is, a gift from God first, and a crucible in which the both of you will improve as individuals and as a couple, increasingly learning what it means to become one flesh. Marriage, IME, is a process, I've begun to measure my expectations for progress not in months, but in years and even decades, believe it or not. I've been married 12 years now together for 16 and we're in many ways still learning to both hold onto ourselves as individuals and to become one flesh at the same time. Marriage is hard, harder than I'd ever imagined quite honestly, and to a certain extent, it contains much mystery, just like the Trinity contains both separate personalities that are at the same time intimately and uniquely tied together as one, such is the mystery of marriage IME.
If you can get to the point in your heart where you can pass beyond your own emotional needs that are going unmet, and see your wife as a dear sister in Christ that has been wounded and needs your friendship and your love without strings attached at least for the foreseeable future, then you can perhaps learn to approach her without the expectations of getting your own sexual needs met.
| Quote: | | He is saying to me to be like Jesus and call upon his strength to take all the anger and bitterness and not return it tit for tat. It's going to be a very hard road to bear, but one i can see will bring me closer to God. It will take time but i hope that as she starts to see a change in me, that wil soften her heart. |
You mentioned you are struggling with your anger, that you've made some progress, how specifically have you made progress brother? What behaviors have you changed as evidence that you are learning how to better process your feelings, especially anger, so that unresolved anger does not turn into bitterness and resentment toward your spouse?
A great book to read about anger is The Other Side of Love: Handling Anger in a Godly Way by Gary Chapman if you haven't had the opportunity.
| Quote: | | I have suggested in that way about reading the book, and doing a bible study together but she takes that as a forceful gesture and that triggers her. In everything a suggestion is taken as i'm meaning do this or else regardless of whether i try to reason with her. I can see that God is calling me to take it on the chin and give it to him. |
God is not calling you to take it on the chin per se. He is probably trying to teach you two to change your focus away from one another and toward yourselves first and foremost. Let me tell you, I spent the first ten years of my relationship focused on trying to change my wife, convinced I didn't need the changing. The result? She almost left me on several occasions and I've damaged her heart to the extent that I'm still uncertain that she will stay with me long term in all honesty. About two and a half years ago now, after having spent years attempting to get her to go to counseling with me, half reading books together, failing to be a good father to our children, yelling and screaming in anger when nothing seemed to work out the way I'd hoped, I decided that I was no longer going to pursue attempting to work on our marriage. I actually sat her down and told her this, that I'm going to be working on me and me alone, that I am no longer going to pursue her in trying to work on the marriage, and that I wasn't even sure what this would all mean, how it would affect her, etc. The six months following this event, were somewhat tumultous because of the simple fact that within the context of any intimate relationship (when two become one), when one person changes, by definition it affects the other person. Over that six month period, my wife actually started asking me when we were going to try and read another book together, when were we going to go out again on a date, when could we start to work on our marriage again. Amazing. For me, what I needed to do was take the focus off of "us", which if I'm honest really meant HER, and put the focus on me. Once I did that, really started to focus ONLY on improving ME, she felt safer to come out from hiding, her defenses gradually subsided (we had huge walls built up between each other after years of treating each other badly). It's some two and a half years later now, and we still have a ways to go, but we're talking openly about more things than we ever have in our past, we're back in church on a frequent basis, our children are much happier and healthier and they feel MUCH safer (we used to threaten each other openly too much even with the children around, walk out on each other when angry - walking out on the kids as well of course), we're involved in a very good married couples Sunday School class and we fellowship with these same married couples outside of church on a frequent basis and we all help to keep one another accountable, and the list goes on.
The hard lesson, the VERY hard lesson that I had to learn, was that all along if you had talked to me before the two and a half year mark, is that I never in a million years would have recognized that I was NOT focusing on myself. I really thought I was doing the right thing on multiple levels and that my wife was merely resisting and not being a good Christian in avoiding me. I thought I was being a good spiritual leader in seeking out counseling. I went to several counselors and she would go for a short period of time and then quit. Why? Because even in the counseling sessions it was all about me, getting my sexual needs met that we going unmet, why wouldn't she open up to me, etc. I had read just about every Christian and secular book under the sun about self improvement for marriage, for myself, etc., literally over 100 books I had read, and yet not a single one of them really got through to me that I was just as much a part of the problem in my marriage as my wife was, in fact, I was MORE of the problem than she was. I'd go weeks without sex, just like you are doing now, as one example, convinced it was her, and not me. She almost had an affair with one of my older friends, because I'd neglected her SO MUCH that she was left very vulnerable and noone, especially me, was there for her to provide any words of wisdom or comfort. I was not her soft place to fall, there was no secret paradise for her to escape to.
So brother, in reading your posts, I'm not sure what to do in regard to the sexual abuse issues and all of the FOO issues that you mention (FOO = Family Of Origin). But I'm darn certain of what you CAN do, and that's to focus on working on YOURSELF.
| Quote: | | I know if i suggest having a mentor couple to be accountable with that she will feel like its another way i'm forcing her to do what i want. I'm really struggling to direct her in a non confrontational way back to what the word of God says. I have tried to show her before and it made things worse. She has come from a background of everything was force and control so i struggle with knowing the right thing to do and this causes a lot of problems. I will continue to pray about it and ask for the right timing with things to say and a softening of the heart. |
Someone in my past once gave me a good analogy for describing togetherness and separateness that I'll use here. It's a point system analogy. There are 50 points for separateness and 50 points for togetherness. Inside of a marriage, ideally each spouse spends 25 points in each category, and as a result, each spouse spends enough separateness points to feel the desire to reconnect, and each spouse spends enough togetherness points to feel the desire to disconnect. You see, we as spouses need to be separate or spend enough time apart to want to be together. This separateness creates the desire to reconnect. On the flip side, we as spouses need to be together or spend enough time together to want to be apart. It's a cycle. However, if either spouse starts monopolizing either area and spends more points than they should, the other spouse will inevitably end up spending the points in the other direction. So, if you're spending 45 of the 50 togetherness points always trying to convince your spouse that you two need time together, constantly pursuing her, possibly because you are seeking to find value for yourself via a reflected sense of self in your spouse (with promotes emotional fusion or codependence and is very unhealthy), then your spouse is going to be forced to spend the separateness points, which result in her always running away trying to find her own space away from you. Does that analogy make any sense?
With that in mind, I don't believe your constantly pursuing her for the sake of your own emotional needs and attempting to find your own value outside of yourself is going to produce any fruit. I think what you need to do is to clearly communicate to her that you've come to the realization that you have some real work to do in your own life and that you're sorry you've spent so much time and energy attempting to find the solutions to your own problems within your marriage when in fact they were never there in the first place. Be honest, tell her you are scared and that you are not certain what the future looks like with you going to work seriously on yourself but that you're going to start down this path because you've come to the conclusion that whatever you've been doing, simply isn't working. You see Working, you can only control you. I see a LOT of references in your words that are indirectly placing the responsibility for the future health of this marriage outside of yourself. Don't be offended, this is a very "human" response IME. I did it for years. It allows us the luxury of not having to come to the conclusion that we're as much of a part of the problem as anyone else, but in the end, as you're experiencing in real life right now, nothing occurs to solve the problem. If you two are anything like my wife and I were, you are professionals at placing blame for whatever issue is at hand. The problem with placing blame is, even if you can manage to get it right, which is rare, the problem still exists, and is oftentimes now worse of a problem than before. Don't focus on blame, focus on fixing the problems, which are most likely, your own bad behaviors that are negatively affecting any future your marriage might have.
| Quote: | | I don't believe in what the counsellor is teaching. He is a physcaritrist (spelling) as well as a christian counsellor but he teaches working through a process with God and having no accountabiltity to your wife or husband. |
What do you mean by accountability within the context of working through a process here? What kind of accountability? Honestly, IME, accountability is best served by a third party that is somewhat knowledgeable about the circumstances, yet is divorced emotionally from what is ongoing and can therefore provide a level of objectivity that is not possible for the spouses to provide each other. That is, at least in minor part one of the reasons for counseling in the first place, to provide a mediator between the spouses.
| Quote: | | So if i make a mistake, and i apoligise and ask for forgiveness. My wife says she forgives me, but then it will take her a few days of being sullen and angry with me before she can move on. She says that she is working this through with God and its part of her process. I can't see the biblical model in this and it worries me. |
Don't confuse forgiveness with reconciliation brother, they are very different even biblically. Forgiveness requires only one person. God forgave all of mankind through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross, yet it is up to each of us to reconcile with God to restore relationship with Him. Reconciliation requires two, it is the active process, after forgiveness, of choosing to restore intimacy into the relationship over a specific issue. If you've given your wife good reason not to trust you in a specific area repeatedly over time, she is wise not to reconcile until true repentance has taken place in your heart. The Word teaches us to look for fruit in keeping with repentance, and to guard our hearts until such repentance has clearly taken place.
Please understand I'm not saying your wife is doing right or wrong, as I really don't know the details and have no basis upon which to say one way or the other.
I'd suggest reading Boundaries by Dr's Cloud and Townsend, and excellent Christian book on understanding both how God enforces boundaries with humankind, and how we can create good healthy boundaries within ourselves.
| Quote: | | I think we should be getting advise from someone who comes back to the Word of God regardless of how painful it is. I feel if the bible says it black and white, why would you choose not to do it? |
Because how you feel is not necessarily in line with what the Word really means. Many MANY humans falsely interpret Scripture for their own benefit at different times, myself included. During the dark times of my marriage in all honesty I knew Scripture even better than I know it today from a "quote it from memory perspective", but I failed to learn the critical lesson that the Bible makes a wonderful sword, but a horrible club with which to beat my wife over the head with. I could quote all kinds of Scripture to my darling wife attempting to show her the error of her ways, none of it did one bit of good because my motivations for doing so were never clean and righteous in the first place.
| Quote: | | God has told me that we will be in ministry together, we will be close and intimate and we will have a fantastic sex life. I guess I'm struggling to see how that will work how we are and whether there needs to be some change from the two of us and direction needed from good counsel to allow this happen. |
My sense is this. Don't worry about the future, and don't focus on the past. Scripture, specifically the Apostle Paul, teaches us to go boldly forward in Christ. The future hasn't been written yet (from our perspective at least), and the past cannot be changed, all you have to work with is the present. Every moment of every day, guard your heart, guard your behavior, be conscious of exactly how you choose to communication, even how you choose to feel brother. I teach my children that feelings in and of themselves are never right nor wrong, they just are, it is what we choose to do as a result of our feelings, our actions (or lack of them), that can be judged right or wrong. So be astute and careful in choosing your actions, make sure they focused on working on yourself. Also, remember that life is ten percent what happens to us and ninety percent how we choose to react to what happens to us. As hard as it is for me to admit this to myself in all honesty, ultimately we even choose how we feel. Think about that and meditate in prayer on this fact. Look at how perfect Christ's reactions were throughout Scripture considering what happened to Him. Really put yourself in His worldly situations as Scripture described them, and then look at His calm and reserve throughout almost every moment. Look at Christ actively choosing how he felt about what occurred. Remember that fact. Remember it especially when you're in difficult emotional circumstances with your own darling wife, choose to feel calm, to not choose anger. I'll tell you right now, this is NOT easy, I've been on this journey myself for three years now and I feel like I'm just beginning, but I'm seeing real progress in my home life with my wife and children as a result.
Choose to be kind and loving towards your wife, read Scriptures definitions of love repeatedly. I think if you can manage to really start and focus on yourself and in finding victory through the strength of Christ over your own problems in life, you'll find the peace of Christ waiting at the door of your heart, knocking gently, and with that peace, you'll find an uncanny ability to love your wife as Christ loves His church, without expectations and without hesitation or anger or bitterness.
Lastly, seriously think about how you find your own value. It sounds like you had a pretty rough upbringing as did your wife. This fact, as SAM said, means you two probably should have waited before jumping into a marriage covenant with each other, but we cannot change the past as we know. I've found that most people with rough upbringings don't have much sense of self worth. You'l alluded to this fact in your own words in regard to how you view yourself. Be careful within the context of your marriage not to place the burden of your own value upon your wife. If you're anything like me (I've also struggled with a weight problem for most of my life), you attempt to find most of your value outside of yourself through sex, which is why it's become a measuring stick for you. Meditate on Scripture that emphasizes how valuable you are in Christ, that even if you were the only person to have lived on this earth beyond Adam and Eve, that Christ still would have gone to the cross for you and you alone. When you really grasp this concept, well I don't know about you, but it just brought tears welling up in my eyes just writing and thinking about it. Find value in YOURSELF for YOURSELF. Remember that you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Remember that you're not what you do, what you have, or who you have. You are who God made you to be. Understand your value. Remember that we cannot give away that which we do not possess. If we do not possess Christ, we cannot give His message away to others. If we do not possess love and respect for ourselves, we cannot give it away to those we love the most. If you are looking for your love and respect outside of yourself, perhaps in your wife through some kind of validation or another, and the message you receive is "no", then it would perhaps explain the anger and resentment would it not? Attempting to find your value through others is not healthy, it is known as looking for a reflected sense of self in psychological terms. If you truly value yourself, if you have Christ in your heart brother, then you can learn to stand toe to toe with your darling wife in a difficult disagreement and remain at peace in your own heart, in control of your faculties. Difficult? You bet. Beyond belief. Possible? I'm living proof, even though I still fail from time to time, I'm better than I used to be, by God's Grace alone, and for His Glory and Honor.
Well, I have to sign off now. I seem to have written a novel. I guess your current situation really sparked a nerve in me because in many ways what you described was very similar to my own circumstances (though your FOO and past experiences are markedly different). I hope this may have helped... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
WorkingwithGod
Junior Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 27
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for your post. It is amazing how the spirit of God works in providing the right words at the right time. I had just started thinking about getting counselling for myself to deal with my issues in this marriage, ie to start dealing with the things i can change and the things i know are mine to deal with, and its only the circumstances which have brought them to the surface. I believe all the things that have happened in the last eight months have been a part of Gods plan to help me deal with issues which have been in my life for many years and have stopped me from really living. I have not had peace or been happy for most of my life and especially the last ten years. I have learnt to draw inside and mask the pain, to make someone prove that they won't hurt me before i let them in, and thats why this marriage has been so hard. It pushed all my emergency buttons from day one and to cope, i tried to control the situation to make it easier to deal with. Everytime at counselling the counsellor would tell me i control people and i have a problem not being in control, and i could never figure that because i usually let people walk all over me rather than control them. Yesterday with your post and with God opening up another lightbulb, i have seen how i control the circumstances to make it bearable rather than dealing with the pain with God. I have not known how to work through things with God, give it to Him and know that suffering and working through things is a part of being a child of God. So in this, i had decided to work through my issues with sex, my fears of women and my inability to relate to people when i'm triggered. In the past, everytime i would get triggered, i would control the situation so that it didnt hurt and i didnt half to deal with it, and that would mean squashing my wife and pushing her into something she didnt want to do. On top of this, i had my family pushing me to leave my wife if she wouldnt be intimate with me (she would never change and obviously has problems they told me). So at this stage, I am staying away from my family to work through my childhood issues, and i'm not close to my wife as i have isolated her with my behaviour, and i have limited friends as i havent been able to open up to many people. I'm taking this opportunity to try to break the cycle and spend my days in prayer to God, and focusing on thinking about why i act the way i do and allowing God to show me where it all started (no matter how painful).
I can definitely see what you are saying about showing her bible verses and trying to convince her what she is doing is wrong. I even tried to come on here to find another way of proving that i was right. I felt justified that she was wrong and i was right. As you said, all the books said what she was doing was wrong and i felt like i had a right to walk away because she was disobeying the Word of God. I did a mens group study at church called 'Valiant Man' and this focused on not looking for what we need from our wives in a sexual way, but ensuring she feels loved and cherished, and to look upon her as a lamb of God. It focused on purifing yourself in your own thought life and above all focusing on her needs before your own. This hit huge triggers with me and I just couldnt handle it. With my wife rejecting me, and this saying i just had to accept it. This was too much.
I wish I could start all over again and give her the space to deal with the issues we had at the beginning without having to now heal and repair the damage i have caused. But i know can see what i have done, and the mentality i need to change with Gods help. I can see what my way of thinking has caused me and because i have known nothing else, it was only way i could do anything. I would probably have done it the same way again if i hadnt dealt with these things. There is so much to change and come to terms with, and its even harder when i really think about it because most of it IS ME, and she is actually very forgiving and loving. There are many woman (most) that would of kicked me out months ago because they couldnt handle the force but I praise God that she also went through a 2 year period of massive personal change, so she knows what went on and how you think during that time. When i step back and look upon the situation, i can really see God's hand involved and He wants me to step back and love my wife like Christ loved the church. I couldnt even look at this verse eight months ago but with God's help, i am starting to see how this is the way it works.
I have been trying to be loving, helping her when i come home, not mentioning anything when i get triggered, giving her space, and telling her once a day one thing which i love about her. She asked to try and have fun and not have to work on things all the time so I have been trying to chill out and joke. Its interesting because we have very different sense of humours and she often tells me that what i said isnt funny (which is a trigger for me). She is often sick and feeling tired and i believe that is a result of all that has happened so i am trying to help her and let her go to bed early and i get the house and kids organised. It really scares me because i feel like i am being used (another trigger). I am just falling back on God and trusting him that i won't be used. I am certainly more aware of how i have in the past i have said yes when i mean no because i didnt want to put anyone out, or thought it might turn into an argument. I am able to say no now despite what might happen so that is a major improvement. I can tell the truth despite the outcome as well instead of not saying anything. I can see the truth about my family and how what they have taught me is not healthy ( as amazing as that is considering my dad was an elder in the church for 25 years).
So to sum up my novel, I am going to stop all pressure to work out issues, I am going to work on my stuff (which is huge and could take a long time), I am going to love my wife regardless of what she is doing with Gods help, and I am going to trust God that He will be able to bring us to a space that we both want and desire more than anything else in our lives - trust and total oneness with someone who loves us.
P.S. My accountability issue i mentioned was another way to tell her what she was doing was wrong ie mentor couple telling her she needed to meet my needs. I always thought you met each other needs and couldnt fathom the thought that I provided the security and safe place for her to open up to me. But i'm getting there. Slow process but with God's help, I'm on my way to becoming a husband that loves his wife like Christ loved the church. Thanks once again for your amazing timely insight and I would appreciate keeping in touch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mishymu
Newbie
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: need to ask you a question? |
|
|
I was reading your posts and you could have been describing my marriage of 23 years. I hope that you are able to find success in the Lord. My question is this......what did it take to get you to see that you were just as much a part of the problem as she was? My husband has yet to get that....still pointing fingers, its me or the kids or his bosses or luck or life in general, very rarely is it anything he could have done or not done to cause things or contribute to them. I am so very tired.... I feel beat down all the time and there is very little trust anymore, how can I trust when I know he only has his own good in mind? Not mine?
I wish I could know for sure what God wants from me.I have endured affairs, lies,accusations,even the molestation of my daughter, I have forgiven and forgiven and forgiven, I know I am not perfect either, but I can't help but wonder when is it my turn to have some peace, some calm?
I know that God hates divorce, and I want to someday have HIM welcome me with open arms and say"Well done my good and faithful servant", but I am hanging on by a thread and dont know where to turn anymore.My husband says he is a christian, but I also know the Bible says "Ye shall know them by their fruit", the only fruit he has is rotten, chaos and pain are in the wake of his path throughout this life.His family has nothing to do with him except his father (who also molested our daughter, but has no knowledge of my husbands molestation of her), he has no friends, he has lost his carreer because of cheating and lying.We are being forced to file bankrupsy because of his lack of work and high bills(2nd time in our marriage).I know that if he wants to stay with me, I am told to stay, but at what price?Can God really want me to suffer like this for my husband and my marriage?Can anyone who is helping this young man help guide me? Thanks! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cjbaldw
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Delaware
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| WorkingwithGod wrote: | | Thanks for your post. It is amazing how the spirit of God works in providing the right words at the right time. I had just started thinking about getting counselling for myself to deal with my issues in this marriage, ie to start dealing with the things i can change and the things i know are mine to deal with, and its only the circumstances which have brought them to the surface. I believe all the things that have happened in the last eight months have been a part of Gods plan to help me deal with issues which have been in my life for many years and have stopped me from really living. I have not had peace or been happy for most of my life and especially the last ten years. |
Yes, I think it's purposeful when the Bible refers to us humans as sheep. Sheep are notoriously stubborn and rather simple animals that oftentimes need a good whack on the head in order to see the light. Sound familiar? 
| Quote: | | I have learnt to draw inside and mask the pain, to make someone prove that they won't hurt me before i let them in, and thats why this marriage has been so hard. |
The sooner you can come to the realization that working through the hard issues is the path to freedom, the sooner you'll want to deal with them. I can understand the desire not to want to be hurt. We should not open our hearts up to someone who is ripe with sin and who has no repentant spirit. However, we do need to realize that almost without exception the path to growth is only possible by working through issues we'd rather avoid. Externalizing our conflicts and externalizing the reasons for our problems is our first instinct, but it is not the way the Word teaches us to deal with problems.
| Quote: | | It pushed all my emergency buttons from day one and to cope, i tried to control the situation to make it easier to deal with. |
Realize something extremely important about control brother. We as human beings are always exercising control, the question is, are we internalizing our control of ourselves, or are we externalizing it in a vane attempt to avoid having to confront our own issues in life. If you can learn to see when you're choosing to exert control outside of yourself, and learn to ask yourself, what am I trying to avoid and/or externalize here that I need to address within myself, then you can learn to actively apply control in a healthy way. We can only control our own thoughts, feelings, and actions (or lack of each of them). The Bible reinforces this concept in listing self control as one of many spiritual gifts.
| Quote: | | Everytime at counselling the counsellor would tell me i control people and i have a problem not being in control, and i could never figure that because i usually let people walk all over me rather than control them. Yesterday with your post and with God opening up another lightbulb, i have seen how i control the circumstances to make it bearable rather than dealing with the pain with God. |
Good, that's a start! We must be willing to "name if before we can claim it" so to speak. Admitting and seeing our true self, while oftentimes painful to admit internally, is the start of the healing process.
| Quote: | | I have not known how to work through things with God, give it to Him and know that suffering and working through things is a part of being a child of God. |
God promises us tribulations and trials in life. You'd think we'd really understand and get this on a personal level and yet we don't. Sheep, oh how we're so similar in many respects.
| Quote: | | So in this, i had decided to work through my issues with sex, my fears of women and my inability to relate to people when i'm triggered. In the past, everytime i would get triggered, i would control the situation so that it didnt hurt and i didnt half to deal with it, and that would mean squashing my wife and pushing her into something she didnt want to do. |
I'm confused, are you saying that you've just now decided to start working on your own issues or you had decided in the past to do so?
Yes, I also think it's worth mentioning, that typically when you attempt to emphasize comfort and a lack of anxiety in relationships, mostly due to avoiding working through issues, it kills sexual desire, particularly for women. The lack of connection, whether good or bad, promotes boredom and a lack of desire. Ironically, in being willing to take yourself and your own issues on, you'll inevitably affect the relationship, because within the context of an intimate relationship, when one spouse changes, it will by definition affect the other spouse.
Intimacy, true intimacy, is about the willingness to become vulnerable, to be seen both inside and outside, with no limits. It is a scary proposition, to really open ourselves up to another human being when you think about it, but it's precisely what is needed in order to achieve real sexual intimacy.
| Quote: | | On top of this, i had my family pushing me to leave my wife if she wouldnt be intimate with me (she would never change and obviously has problems they told me). So at this stage, I am staying away from my family to work through my childhood issues, and i'm not close to my wife as i have isolated her with my behaviour, and i have limited friends as i havent been able to open up to many people. |
Understood. The Bible tells us that there's a way that seems to make sense to a man, but actually leads to his destruction. Our 1st instinct is to isolate ourselves when we're in pain, but it's precisely what we should NOT do in these types of circumstances.
| Quote: | | I'm taking this opportunity to try to break the cycle and spend my days in prayer to God, and focusing on thinking about why i act the way i do and allowing God to show me where it all started (no matter how painful). |
Good to hear!
| Quote: | | I can definitely see what you are saying about showing her bible verses and trying to convince her what she is doing is wrong. I even tried to come on here to find another way of proving that i was right. I felt justified that she was wrong and i was right. As you said, all the books said what she was doing was wrong and i felt like i had a right to walk away because she was disobeying the Word of God. |
And even if you can manage to assign blame, does that do anything to solve the underlying problem? No, it most certainly does not.
| Quote: | | I did a mens group study at church called 'Valiant Man' and this focused on not looking for what we need from our wives in a sexual way, but ensuring she feels loved and cherished, and to look upon her as a lamb of God. It focused on purifing yourself in your own thought life and above all focusing on her needs before your own. This hit huge triggers with me and I just couldnt handle it. With my wife rejecting me, and this saying i just had to accept it. This was too much. |
Understood. It is not easy to look inward versus looking outward when it comes to explaining my problems to myself, but that is precisely what the question needs to be when something goes awry in all but the most rare of circumstances. We need to be able to ask ourselves, what is it about me that has helped to create this problem? What is my contribution to this issue, what can I change about myself moving forward?
| Quote: | | I wish I could start all over again and give her the space to deal with the issues we had at the beginning without having to now heal and repair the damage i have caused. But i know can see what i have done, and the mentality i need to change with Gods help. I can see what my way of thinking has caused me and because i have known nothing else, it was only way i could do anything. |
Don't be too hard on yourself about the past, that will only promote depression and defeat. Accept your past for what it is, be real about it, and learn from it. We cannot change it. Commit to changing what you can each moment of today as best you can. Tomorrow hasn't been written yet. Don't say to yourself, I'll start acting the way I know I should tomorrow, there's always tomorrow, etc. Start today, act today, love yourself and control yourself today, and love her today.
| Quote: | | I would probably have done it the same way again if i hadnt dealt with these things. There is so much to change and come to terms with, and its even harder when i really think about it because most of it IS ME, and she is actually very forgiving and loving. |
I'm glad to see you focusing on what you can change, you, and I'm glad to see you seeing good in your wife. Make sure you tell her what you just told me here. Compliment her consistently.
| Quote: | There are many woman (most) that would of kicked me out months ago because they couldnt handle the force but I praise God that she also went through a 2 year period of massive personal change, so she knows what went on and how you think during that time. When i step back and look upon the situation, i can really see God's hand involved and He wants me to step back and love my wife like Christ loved the church. I couldnt even look at this verse eight months ago but with God's help, i am starting to see how this is the way it works.
I have been trying to be loving, helping her when i come home, not mentioning anything when i get triggered, giving her space, and telling her once a day one thing which i love about her. She asked to try and have fun and not have to work on things all the time so I have been trying to chill out and joke. |
Remember that you can't be working on the relationship all of the time. There's the inner circle of marriage that emphasizes stability, peace, normalcy, etc., and there's the outer circle where we do our growing as individuals and as a couple. We can't always be in the outer circle, we need times when things are normal and when we can count on a soft place to fall, just as much as we need times when we're in the outer circle dealing with the anxieties of growing as individuals and as a couple. If we live in the inner circle all of the time, boredom and low sexual desire are typical results.
| Quote: | | Its interesting because we have very different sense of humours and she often tells me that what i said isnt funny (which is a trigger for me). She is often sick and feeling tired and i believe that is a result of all that has happened so i am trying to help her and let her go to bed early and i get the house and kids organised. It really scares me because i feel like i am being used (another trigger). |
Once again, don't find your value outside of yourself. Do it because you want to do it. Help because you choose to do so, own that choice, take responsibility for it.
| Quote: | I am just falling back on God and trusting him that i won't be used. I am certainly more aware of how i have in the past i have said yes when i mean no because i didnt want to put anyone out, or thought it might turn into an argument. I am able to say no now despite what might happen so that is a major improvement. I can tell the truth despite the outcome as well instead of not saying anything. I can see the truth about my family and how what they have taught me is not healthy ( as amazing as that is considering my dad was an elder in the church for 25 years).
So to sum up my novel, I am going to stop all pressure to work out issues, I am going to work on my stuff (which is huge and could take a long time), I am going to love my wife regardless of what she is doing with Gods help, and I am going to trust God that He will be able to bring us to a space that we both want and desire more than anything else in our lives - trust and total oneness with someone who loves us.
P.S. My accountability issue i mentioned was another way to tell her what she was doing was wrong ie mentor couple telling her she needed to meet my needs. I always thought you met each other needs and couldnt fathom the thought that I provided the security and safe place for her to open up to me. But i'm getting there. Slow process but with God's help, I'm on my way to becoming a husband that loves his wife like Christ loved the church. Thanks once again for your amazing timely insight and I would appreciate keeping in touch. |
You are welcome...keep posting and let us know how you're doing whenever you feel the need. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cjbaldw
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Delaware
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: need to ask you a question? |
|
|
| Mishymu wrote: | I was reading your posts and you could have been describing my marriage of 23 years. I hope that you are able to find success in the Lord. My question is this......what did it take to get you to see that you were just as much a part of the problem as she was? My husband has yet to get that....still pointing fingers, its me or the kids or his bosses or luck or life in general, very rarely is it anything he could have done or not done to cause things or contribute to them. I am so very tired.... I feel beat down all the time and there is very little trust anymore, how can I trust when I know he only has his own good in mind? Not mine?
I wish I could know for sure what God wants from me.I have endured affairs, lies,accusations,even the molestation of my daughter, I have forgiven and forgiven and forgiven, I know I am not perfect either, but I can't help but wonder when is it my turn to have some peace, some calm?
I know that God hates divorce, and I want to someday have HIM welcome me with open arms and say"Well done my good and faithful servant", but I am hanging on by a thread and dont know where to turn anymore.My husband says he is a christian, but I also know the Bible says "Ye shall know them by their fruit", the only fruit he has is rotten, chaos and pain are in the wake of his path throughout this life.His family has nothing to do with him except his father (who also molested our daughter, but has no knowledge of my husbands molestation of her), he has no friends, he has lost his carreer because of cheating and lying.We are being forced to file bankrupsy because of his lack of work and high bills(2nd time in our marriage).I know that if he wants to stay with me, I am told to stay, but at what price?Can God really want me to suffer like this for my husband and my marriage?Can anyone who is helping this young man help guide me? Thanks! |
Are you asking me or the original poster? I can't tell... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mishymu
Newbie
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: you or origional poster? |
|
|
| At this point any help would be greatly appreciated. He came home tuesday(he works out of town) and I got to hear how I am failing as a wife and mother and how he cant be close to me because there is me and the kids on one side and him on the other. I didn"t place him there, he did, I cannot uphold his standards and requirements of severe punishments on the children. They are great kids, straight A's, repectful and very active at school. I have been a little lax when it comes to chores, but they are so busy and so am I, that I didn't follow his directives when it came to discipline in lieu of their chores being done. My son is 18, my daughter is 15 1/2. My son's chore was dishes every night, my daughters was trash and picking up the living room. We had had a week of me working 58 hours that week, and lots of homework and they didn't do as good a job on their chores as he thought they should. He wanted me to ban my son from football which he has spent 4 years working every day at in the hopes of a college scholaship. I was to ban my daughter from band which she is very active in trying to get a scholarship too. He says his problem is that the children would agree that he is an asshole sometimes, but that they would never say that I am, because I am too much their "friend"? But I am the one that has basically raised them, he was working all the time they were growing up and just recently has decided he wants a different relationship with them.He cannot understand their reluctance to trust him when he has been virtually absent in the formative years.He says that I am failing as a wife because I dont submit to his authority where it comes to the children, that basically no matter how unreasonable his decisions are, I am to stand behind him 100% against the kids. And yes I do mean "against the kids". He has this attitude of them vs. us,that he believes is how things are. So here i am wondering if I really am this horrible wife that he wants me to believe I am, am I this horrible mother? How can I be so horrible if my children are well rounded and well adjusted? How is that being a bad wife? I am working everyday to pay bills, he has just recently started working out of town to make money, he was unemployed for the last 1 1/2 year by choice. We are losing our house and having to file bankruptsy again(2nd time in our marriage) and having to start all over again. And in his mind it is all my fault. I am not wonderful in the housekeeping dept, but then again, I feel as though since I am helping him with his responsibility of providing for the family he should help me with mine in the home. He doesnt, and so not only do I have to deal with normal house crap, but more because he has been home all day everyday for 1 1/2 years expecting that when I get home I will pick his stuff up too! I am just needing a little guidance on what exactly is abuse? What am I supposed to do about it? Where do I stand biblically on the administering his punishments on the children? What exactly does submission to him mean? HELP! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cjbaldw
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Delaware
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: need to ask you a question? |
|
|
| Mishymu wrote: | | I was reading your posts and you could have been describing my marriage of 23 years. I hope that you are able to find success in the Lord. |
Thank you, that is my prayer as well.
| Quote: | | My question is this......what did it take to get you to see that you were just as much a part of the problem as she was? |
Mishymu...that is a good question. I guess my first and most important answer, is by the Grace of God Himself. He brought me pretty close to the end of myself in a few key areas of my life, brought certain individuals into my life at key times that were a witness to me and fellowshipped with me. These Godly men weren't so much aware of their influence on me, some are more aware than others, but the combination of several Godly male influences in my life, combined with God convicting my heart and having me read tons of books, eventually, it all just started to click somehow. I was able to internalize, thanks be to God, that the only person I can change is myself. I stopped externalized blame, externalizing control, and started looking inward, and the more I looked (and continue to look in all honesty), the more I see SO MUCH that God needs to chisel away at that I have no business pointing my fingers toward anyone else.
[quote]My husband has yet to get that....still pointing fingers, its me or the kids or his bosses or luck or life in general, very rarely is it anything he could have done or not done to cause things or contribute to them. I am so very tired.... I feel beat down all the time and there is very little trust anymore, how can I trust when I know he only has his own good in mind? Not mine?
I understand and I'm sorry to hear of your heartache sister. 
((((((((((((((((Mishymu))))))))))))))))))))
Externalizing blame is most often combined with externalizing control. They are both defense mechanisms designed to take the focus off of "us" and to help us to justify to ourselves that we're not the ones that need to change. On the surface, these destructive methods "seem" to work. I suppose what I had to come to terms with in my own life when using these bad behaviors, was that I was never happy. I was never content. Even if I could manage to legitimize the blame and control my environment around me via manipulative, controlling, and in some cases verbally abusive behavior, I was still unhappy, and my problems still existed. Blame doesn't solve problems, it never does. It might help us to feel better for a time, but sooner or later we realize, even if we know who's fault it is, the problem still exists. So, I realized that I had to start solving my problems.
Control is a funny thing. In my experience, we ALL exert controlling behavior. The key factor is, how do we exert our controlling behavior. Do we exert it inwardly, or outwardly? Do I realize the ONLY person I can control is me, or do I externalize my control and attempt to control everyone around me in a vain effort to make the world around me line up with my interpretation of how I think the world should work. I tried the latter idea for about 10 years, and drove away my wife and my children to the point that we almost divorced several times and had a VERY tense homelife. Somehow, I was able to realize all of this, and just like that old adage that says admitting the problem is half of the battle, once I realized the futility of how I was behaving, and accepted the hard reality that I was in fact choosing how I felt and behaved, I started to change. To God be the Glory and the Honor.
| Quote: | | I wish I could know for sure what God wants from me.I have endured affairs, lies,accusations,even the molestation of my daughter, I have forgiven and forgiven and forgiven, I know I am not perfect either, but I can't help but wonder when is it my turn to have some peace, some calm? |
I have to be honest, the molestation thing, that's a deal breaker for me. That constitutes adultery, plain and simple, and IMHO you'd be fully within your rights to walk away. I'm NOT saying this is the solution for you, as I don't know you at all in reality. But if you and your children are in danger, you must prioritize safety above all else.
| Quote: | | I know that God hates divorce, and I want to someday have HIM welcome me with open arms and say"Well done my good and faithful servant", but I am hanging on by a thread and dont know where to turn anymore. |
Yes, Scripture plainly states this, but Christ explained to us that certificates of divorce are granted for anything other than adultery, due to hardness of heart.
In your case, adultery has occurred (seemingly multiple times), so it is really your decision what path you must take.
| Quote: | | My husband says he is a christian, but I also know the Bible says "Ye shall know them by their fruit", the only fruit he has is rotten, chaos and pain are in the wake of his path throughout this life.His family has nothing to do with him except his father (who also molested our daughter, but has no knowledge of my husbands molestation of her), he has no friends, he has lost his carreer because of cheating and lying.We are being forced to file bankrupsy because of his lack of work and high bills(2nd time in our marriage).I know that if he wants to stay with me, I am told to stay, but at what price?Can God really want me to suffer like this for my husband and my marriage?Can anyone who is helping this young man help guide me? Thanks! |
Yeesh, your life sounds pretty rough, I'm honesty not in a position to give you advice other than to talk about my own life experiences. I must say though, the molestation for me would be a real concern that would legitimize at least a physical separation until your husband "sees the light" and gets his life together. Just my .02 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
