When is a Christian no longer a Christian? - Do we have an unlimited warranty

Grace · Full Member Joined: 24 May 2001 Posts: 90 Location: IL.

Wow, this topic has raised some tough questions. My pastor says there are two schools of though as you all have brought up. His advice is to live with full confidence of your salvation. Rest in that. And also, live with the need and desire to live as Christ did. As if you had to. What could be wrong with the two doctrines colliding?? That is the growing Christian Cool

Grace

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1990 Location: Chicago

Yes, both came back to their faith, but in the meantime did they stand the chance of losing their salvation? I don't think they would.

Several times the question of adultery has come up. I can say from personal experience, a friend of ours was in a relationship, yet he did not lose his salvation. It took some time to walk away from the adultery, but he came back to God.

I believe God expects us to walk away at times, sometimes for long periods of time, but knowing our heart is still his no matter how small a portion.

The question after that remains - "Was there ever a true conversion?" Especially when someone would continue to murder or be a prostitute, as an example.

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

This isn't a problem for most Christians, those who walk with the Lord. The prospects of this discussion need to be considered by those who have chosen to live outside of their faith as a lifestyle.

Paul talks about sin and death together for a reason, one cannot simply write off what is he saying - "If you live according to the flesh you will die,", -- "For the wages of sin is death" -- whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

For those living outside of their faith, the words of Paul, should be considered seriously. You don't want to be caught napping :sleepy:

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1990 Location: Chicago

danielle · Full Member Joined: 19 Apr 2002 Posts: 232

I totally agree w/ you Sam. If there was a true conversion is key here. That's why I kept commenting "if someone is TRULY saved." And that it is a condition of the heart.

But I also agree w/ what we've been learning in Bible study lately, about what takes place after becoming saved---justification, santification, and 2 other things that I can't remember right now. It happens over time.

Bottomline to me, anyone can say "I'm saved" but to say "I'm a Christian", there has to be some solid evidence in one's life.

Janine · Posted: Tue May 14, 2002 9:13 am Post subject:

It always helps in a study or conversation to define terms, at least for the purposes of the conversation.

What is a "Christian"? Any saved person? A disciple of Jesus? Anyone who calls himself one? Only one who has submitted to obedience to the Gospel?

What is "saved"? Not having to be eternally accountable for one's sorry sinful self? Clean, spiritually? Righteous? Being sinless?

After two people set down their definitions, it's a lot easier to have a dialog.

As far as "losing" our salvation; how can we lose it? We aren't the ones who thought up the concept, provided a sacrifice to obtain it, & bled & died to be the sacrifice. We aren't the ones who keep it or guard it or maintain it.

God will never trip, stumble, wave His arms around for balance, then look down at His empty hand and say, "Ooops, I lost Janine!"

On the other hand, we can leave it behind, shed it like an old unwanted coat, throw it back in the Master's face, sell it for a mess of pottage... Too much Scripture about ones who had been with God leaving Him behind, for me to think He holds us prisoner...

Thank God, one word He never says is "Ooops!" :rolleyes:

Grace · Full Member Joined: 24 May 2001 Posts: 90 Location: IL.

I came to Christ in my 20's. although, I'm not sure what continue to "persue" sin is, I still have trouble with much of my past sin. (I still do it ) I consider myself a Christian.

Sam, I don't know if I fully understand. God won't make you perfect overnight. by this statement I feel as if I am being judged by other Christians. It sounds so "righteous" to me. I alone know my heart and soul. God sees and knows it as well. When I go forward on my last day, then I will know. I know I keep on sinning. Help me to understand this. ???

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1990 Location: Chicago

danielle · Full Member Joined: 19 Apr 2002 Posts: 232

Hi Janine,

Welcome!

To me, I've understood saved to mean: someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior. They confess with their mouth that he is Lord, admits their sin and the need for him in their life, and accepts him into their life.

A Christian is a person who strives to live as Christ lived. Someone who is Christ-like. That's why the word "Christ" is in Christian.

The dictionary defines it as: 1) adherent of Christianity 2) of Christ's teaching 3) believing in or following the religion of Christ.

But again, like the article in Growthtrac states about Christianity, it involves:
BELIEVING
RECEIVING
BECOMING

Alot of people believe, but don't receive Christ into their life, and then becoming is definitely the hard part but all the worth it!

I too do not think you can "lose" your salvation. This is a gift from God. Once you accept this gift, you cannot not lose it. You can "leave it behind" as Janine stated, by rejecting or neglecting teachings of the Christian faith or even if you convert to a different religion. Soooooo....can someone claim "I was once saved." ??

My 2 cents. ???

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

danielle · Full Member Joined: 19 Apr 2002 Posts: 232

Sounds like this requires further study & perhaps a new topic posted? ???

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