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kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
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 Posted: Thu May 09, 2002 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I have posted before regarding our issues with my mother-in-law and family. We have been currently having a season of seperation, and what a nice season it has been to be honest with you. For the first time in two years we have been living out from under mother-in-laws constant criticism and controlling ways. Jason and I have taken this opportunity to seek our own way and grow, out from under her covering and the covering of our old church. What an enlightening time!
Anyhow, during this season, I still tried to keep love between us (the scripture that kept coming to mind was the one telling us not to tire of doing good things). I sent crafts from the kids to mother-in-law as a belated birthday gift, I sent pics of the kids once, and I sent a letter to his parents explaining a little, lovingly, why we felt the way we did, as well as a letter to his sister apologizing for a petty fight we had with her and expresing to her that despite what may happen with her parents, our door was open to her. I have receieved no response from anybody. Ugh. Recenly Jason had surgery for a very bad hernia. I e-mailed the in-laws house, and the sister's job, with the date of his surgery leaving it open for them to call, visit, whatever. Well, nobody called or visited. Jason was so hurt and is now very angry. Thier pride kept them from our wedding b/c of issues we were having then, even though they were welcome to come, and thier pride has now kept them from thier son's/brother's surgery. How much insult, hurt, and anger can we take? I am very angry that they choose to do this to Jason, he is an awesome son, brother, husband, and father and deserves love, not this. It brings me to cry to think about how his family is acting towards him. Now, I just received an e-mail from his sister's boyfriend telling me that nobody forgot his surgery, they were all praying and love him very much. This made me more angry! Love him very much?! Then why didn't they call??? My mom would never let a wedding, or surgery, go by without being there for me, even if we were fighting. What kind of family could do this? And what do we do about it? I try to keep them in prayer, as well as myself for forgiveness towards them. I pray that the Lord softens my heart and gives me a heart for them b/c right now I want to pick up the phone and give them a piece of my mind! Now, what do we do about healing? Do I continue to "do right" without tiring? Or do I leave it alone? Please keep them in prayer, thier names are Carole, Stephen, Sarah (16), and Vanessa (21) for opened eyes, softened hearts and conviction. Also keep us in prayer for healing and hearts for them before our hearts harden against them. Thank you. :inlove: |
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GIC
Full Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 102
Location: IL.
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2002 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Kelly, I am sending one up to the Big Guy right now. I'm sorry this is such a burden. I will tell you that maybe they need time not everything is in your time. God is in control. Maybe your prayers should lean toward 'what can I learn here? How do I hear You Lord? Grow me!"
Sometimes, we make it about what we think God wants us to do, maybe it's about what God wants to do.  GIC |
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Davep
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Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2002 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now, I just received an e-mail from his sister's boyfriend telling me that nobody forgot his surgery, they were all praying and love him very much. This made me more angry! Love him very much?! Then why didn't they call??? My mom would never let a wedding, or surgery, go by without being there for me, even if we were fighting. |
Is calling better than praying? I don't know. Under normal situtations, that is when all family member are getting along, everything seems to work out. But there is some major hurt feelings and pain justified or not, on both sides of the family here.
People don't do or say good things when they are mad. And it gets worse, because we compound their bad things, when we reflect on their actions and why they did what they did. This is the kettle on the fire, which satan simply turns.
Keeping on praying, and showing your love for your other family members, give them no foothold on which they can stand on their anger. |
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kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2002 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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GIC, we do pray for ourselves in this situation. We pray for wisdom on how to handle this His way, we pray for softened hearts so we don't become embittered, we pray for His will, not our own (or thiers)...
Davep, in this case love would be better than praying, let me tell you why...Carole has a habit of praying for what she wants and not what God wants. She prayed that I would miscarry when I conceived out of wedlock b/c she didn't think the baby was God's will, she prayed that my daughter's arthiritis could be used for her children's ministry that she wants to start (so my daughter could be an example of being "valuable"- in a wheelchair yet still loved by Christ) when she should have been praying for healing for my daughter not to end up in a wheelchair, she prayed for a girl in the church not to get her license b/c Carole didn't think she was responsible enough...I could go on. She goes on and on about curses (which was the teaching in our church), yet if she was able to put curses on people like she said it could be done, numerous people would be cursed right now b/c of her! So, we would much rather see and feel a show of love right now rather than hear she has been praying for us. She is a cold woman, yet preaches to people how "valuable" they are. It seems to be in her head, but hasnt gotten to her heart yet...she doesn't seem able to love her own family (she hasnt seen her grandchildren in 3 months even after I tried contact...doesn't come to her son's wedding, isn't around for her son's surgery...). Did I make this more understandable? We would much rather see a change of heart, love, than hear the usual "I am praying for you" from her. |
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Davep
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Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2002 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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WOW
She sounds like a christian busy body. Christianity has become her occupation rather than her faith. Her actions seem to follow those of the Pharisee.
???
Her morals, values, and faith system is total different then yours. Her love or what comes up as love, probably comes at a price.
She not living a Christ center life. She's just using God to support her own spiritual agenda. Does your husband recognize her direction and agenda? How does he react to her shanakins? |
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kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2002 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dave, you just hit it right on the nose describing her! I couldn't have said it better myself, you got it! Christianity has become a platform of sorts to her. She thinks who she is, but her fruits show something other than Christ...
Unfortunately this has greatly hurt Jason. At first, two years ago when we first met, he was living at home, completely covered by her and his church. He thought the world of his mother and his pastor. Both have shown thier true colors to him since and it has been a hard pill to swallow for him. He has done alot of growing up b/c of it. I believe God has carried him through it, opened his eyes, b/c he easily could have stayed at home under thier covering, but instead chose to get out from under them for me. In that I mean that I saw his mother for what she was (as described above) and his pastor isnt much different. This caused alot of fights and tears in the beginning b/c he was being pulled in two different directions. He chose the harder way by leaving home, and eventually leaving the church he grew up in, to build a family with me and search for the truth. He is a man in every sense of the word to me (keep in mind by marrying me he was also taking on two children who were not his own at only 24 years own, plus the fact that he had gotten me pregnant out of wedlock, making things harder).
He has been very hurt, but now is numb to the pain. He has gotten used to it from his family (and church). Currently he is very angry and torn. It is obvious he is wishing things would just work out, he keeps trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but keeps getting let down. For example, he was thinking that just maybe the reason his family didn't respond to his surgery is b/c they didn't get my message. He wasn't making excuses for them, it was just a thought in the back of his mind. Then we got an e-mail from his sister's boyfriend telling us that nobody forgot his surgery, that they had prayed for him and that we should know they all love him very much. Well, now we knew they had gotten my message and still chose not to be around. Another slap in his face. He is ok, just had a little hope that his family really couldn't be that heartless, shot down. I am feeling for him right now. He shouldn't be dealing with this, he is such an awesome man and I wish his family could be proud of him instead of shooting him down.
We don't want thier prayers, we want a change of heart, a change of attitude. He spoke to is aunt the other day and told her he had surgery. She asked all about it and sent a card the next day. She was disappointed when her told her that his family hadn't been around for it. She must have laid into her sister (his mother) for it b/c yesterday we got a card from his mother. Jason just wrote "Return to sender" on it. It was post dated 8 days after his surgery, a surgery they knew about a month in advance. If it had been in thier hearts to wish him well they would have visited, called, or at least sent a card sooner. It was a guilt card b/c his aunt laid into her about it. We don't want guilt cards, we want love...
This is such a difficult situation. Where to draw lines, what step to take next (being as Christ-like as possible), what to tolerate, what to accept and not accept...ugh.  |
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Davep
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Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2002 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Kelly
Are Carole's attitudes, opinions, and truths unique to her? Does the Pastor and most of the other church going members believe the same as she does? In both social and doctrine matters?
What is the attitude of the Pastor in general, about the bible, people's faith, social matters?
Does the church excercise lots of control over it's members?
Do church members have to follow any strict rules?
Does the Pastor or any other members use tactics of manipulation such as guilt, peer pressure, intimidation, and threats of divine judgment from God for disobedience?
What is this church's opinion of other churchs in your area?
Does the church have any small group studies, lifegroups, men/woman/marriage retreats, or men/woman/youth ministries? |
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GIC
Full Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 102
Location: IL.
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2002 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Kelly, I am glad that you are open to God's will.
Dave has a good point about the Pastor, and church. I will continue to pray for you. GIC |
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SAM
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Joined: 03 Mar 2001
Posts: 2164
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2002 7:26 am Post subject: |
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It can be really hard to show Christ's love back to someone who hurts you so deeply.
I really have to question sending the card back, Return to Sender. What message was this sending your mother-in-law?
Try not to let the bitterness and anger eat you up. Is it something you are dwelling on daily? Ask God to take control of this whole situation, daily be sure to say to Him I need to leave this in your hands. Lord, I ask for healing of my heart and hers.
Kelly,
Understand that his family sees you as the one who has pulled their son away. They see you as the one who seduced him and had a child before marriage. They see you as now destroying what is left of the relationship. Even though this is not justified, it is their anger and it seems that more fuel is being added to the fire everyday.
I know the feelings, because I have been through them with my future son-in-law and daughter. I have a new grandson born February 15. My daughter is not married, although they will be next month. I have had to work on forgiving both of them a whole lot, not letting my own bitterness and anger eat me up. It has been really hard. I have found embracing my future son-in-law and giving him the love and grace he needs from Christ has been the only thing to turn this around. There are days when I certainly don't feel like it, but God has also given me a beautiful little baby to love and cherish and I would do nothing to destroy that relationship.
Pray that Jason's family's hearts are softened, pray from reconcilation. Pray that your heart stays soft and ask God to ease your anger. Otherwise, the bitterness that you see in Jason's family, will start to become a part of you.
I will continue to pray for all of you. I know how much they are missing to enjoy their grandchildren.
Whatever you do, no matter how hard, do not add fuel to the fire. Whatever you do, do it with the grace and love of Christ in mind. |
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kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2002 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I know how much they are missing to enjoy their grandchildren.
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Unfortunately this is not the case. I have sent pictures twice along with e-mails about how they were doing and I haven't received one response in three months. If they cared about thier grandchildren, they would have contacted us. I have told them that the kids have nothing to do with what's going on, and unless she (mil) was damaging them by speaking badly of me to tham, I would never hold the kids from them. They know they could see them, come take them out, at least call to speak to them, but none of them have. Thier hearts are very hard.
Ok Dave, I'll try to answer everything.
| Quote: | Are Carole's attitudes, opinions, and truths unique to her? Does the Pastor and most of the other church going members believe the same as she does? In both social and doctrine matters?
What is the attitude of the Pastor in general, about the bible, people's faith, social matters?
Does the church excercise lots of control over it's members?
Do church members have to follow any strict rules?
Does the Pastor or any other members use tactics of manipulation such as guilt, peer pressure, intimidation, and threats of divine judgment from God for disobedience?
What is this church's opinion of other churchs in your area?
Does the church have any small group studies, lifegroups, men/woman/marriage retreats, or men/woman/youth ministries? |
No, Carole's opinions are not unique to her. Not evrey member of the church agrees, but many do side with her, even after seeing her attack me in front of other's. Since this whole thing began two years ago, I have been the one being called into couseling to learn how to deal with her, instead of her being in couseling to learn how to stop! The pastor and elders have admited to us that they have seen a problem in Carole for years, but yet they have done nothing! It's as if the church tip-toes around her...
The pastor does have some "interesting" ideas about the bible. For instance, he is a believer in "curses". He often teaches from his own words instead of opening the bible. I had complained to Jason a few times that we were never called to open our bible in church and how can we learn the Word that way. It was the only way he knew for a while, until we visited other churches and he saw the Holy Spirit actually move during a service!
There is alot of control in that church. It is hard to see b/c there are no strict rules. However we saw it back when we got married; being that Carole canceled our wedding on us and we planned a quick front yard wedding, we had to call up our guests and invite them to our house. One family from the church showed up! Later we found out it wsa b/c they were asking the pastor if they should come and he was telling them "no". Previously he had told us he blesses our union, he just cannot be theone to marry us b/c of the situation with Carole, he even offered to pay for the justice of the peace for us! Then he turned around to the congregation and told them not to attend our wedding b/c it wasn't blessed b/c he wasnn't doing it! He lied! And evreybody followed him! We have noticed since that everybody seems to be brainwashed. Many consult with the pastor before they do anything, others act as little spies running to the pastor with everything that is said about the church. Scary...
The church does use threats. I can't tell you how many times I was told I wouldn't be blessed b/c I was doing this or that. This is interesting, Jason and I wanted to be married before i had the baby. The pastor tried to talk us out of it by telling me that there was no way I could "please" my husband the way I should on our wedding night b/c I was pregnant and he told jason that he should marry the "bride of his youth" and I couldn't be that bride while 8 months pregnant. What horse hooey! We thing he was justtrying to protect his reputation by trying to aviod marrying us while I was showing so much. He said he had no problem marrying us after the baby...They make you feel badly, guilty, about alot. They are very good at it, very slick...
Small groups, nope. We asked once for a cell group of some sort, was told "no". We asked to be under another couple for accountability, never happened. It's like if it doesn't go through the pastor, it doesn't go through! He has been heard saying, "nobody will be above me!". Ooh...
By the way, even after numerous phone calls from us asking for a meeting before we left the church (10, 11 phone calls), the pastor never called us back. It's as if he sensed we were growing in Christ without his control and it scared him...Oh well.
Did I cover everything?!  |
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Davep
Veteran
Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2002 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Kelly
Here a weblink on discussion of Abusive Churches.
Abusive Churches
Also a book reference:
Sociologists looks for patterns in human behavior and in social institutions. As you read the following pages, a profile of pastoral and spiritual abuse will emerge. Abusive churches, past and present, are first and foremost characterized by strong, control-oriented leadership. These leaders use guilt, fear, and intimidation to manipulate members and keep them in line. Followers are led to think that there is no other church quite like theirs and that God has singled them out for special purposes. Other, more traditional evangelical churches are put down. Subjective experience is emphasized and dissent is discouraged. Many areas of member's lives are subject to scrutiny. Rules and legalism abound. People who don't follow rules or who threaten exposure are often dealt with harshly. Excommunication is common. For those who leave, the road back to normalcy is difficult. - Ronald M. Enroth
Reader Review - Click
Also look for a discussion of Lifegroups in the Small Group section |
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SAM
Veteran
Joined: 03 Mar 2001
Posts: 2164
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2002 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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I know how much I would miss my grandchild, I guess they do not. How sad for you, your husband and your children.
For me it was very hard to get beyond the point of blaming my future son-in-law for everything. I had to watch my words carefully. I am so grateful God opened my eyes that my daughter was just as much involved. It takes two!
Luckily the grace God extended flowed into me to take the anger and resentment away. Things have been so much better since and their is a loving understanding that has grown between us.
It is a shame they are choosing the path of anger and resentment. It sounds like this pastor could be adding fuel to the fire. It is amazing that he would not call you and Jason back! My heart aches for you and your family.
The book Dave recommended is an excellent resource. |
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