|
|
| Author |
Message |
Grace
Full Member
Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 90
Location: IL.
|
 Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 1:09 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Does anyone have any ideas concerning this? A pastor friend and I were talking about this and I wondered, "Is a disciple an apostle?" What is the difference? thanks Grace |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
webacus
Veteran
Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 608
Location: Behind you.
|
| Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here goes:
| Quote: | | The word "Apostle", from the Greek apostello "to send forth", "to dispatch", has etymologically a very general sense. Apostolos (Apostle) means one who is sent forth, dispatched--in other words, who is entrusted with a mission, rather, a foreign mission. It has, however, a stronger sense than the word messenger, and means as much as a delegate. In the classical writers the word is not frequent. In the Greek version of the Old Testament it occurs once, in III Kings, xiv, 6 (cf. ibid., xii, 24). In the New Testament, on the contrary. it occurs, according to Bruder's Concordance, about eighty times, and denotes often not all the disciples of the Lord, but some of them specially called. It is obvious that our Lord, who spoke an Aramaic dialect, gave to some of his disciples an Aramaic title, the Greek equivalent of which was "Apostle". It seems to us that there is no reasonable doubt about the Aramaic word being seliah, by which also the later Jews, and probably already the Jews before Christ, denoted "those who were despatched from the mother city by the rulers of the race on any foreign mission, especially such as were charged with collecting the tribute paid to the temple service" (Lightfoot, "Galatians", London, 1896, p. 93). The word apostle would be an exact rendering of the root of the word seliah,= apostello. |
So, I think what the above says is the Aramaic title, the Greek equivalent to "Disciple" was "Apostle". Both words have the same meaning?
***********
Grace, how's your "summer"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grace
Full Member
Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 90
Location: IL.
|
| Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow Webacus!!! That took a few times to read but I think I got it. ~ Go ask Geeves. :p
Anyway, what summer? This weather that can't make up it's mind? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Davep
Veteran
Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Wed May 29, 2002 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My take on it is an Apostle refers to one of the 12 appointed individuals. Where Disciples are those who follow or are pupils of Christ. Remember when Judas was eliminated it created a vacancy; which was filled by Paul.
Apostle
1. Delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian eachers
1- of Barnabas
2- of Timothy and Silvanus
Someone sent with a special message or commission. Jesus is called the apostle and high Priest of our confession in Hebrews 3:1. The twelve apostles of Jesus were Simon Peter, Andrew, James the son of Zebedee, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot. Paul became an apostle after Jesus' resurrection (2 Cor. 1:1), along with Barnabas (Acts 14:14), and others.
Apostles established churches (Rom. 15:17-20), exposed error (Gal. 1:6-9), and defended the truth of the gospel (Phil. 1:7,17). Some were empowered by the Holy Spirit to perform Miracles (Matt. 10:1, and they were to preach the gospel (Matt. 28:19,20).
CARM -Theological dictionaries
Disciple
1. a learner, pupil, disciple
A pupil or follower of a religion, a person, or a movement. As Christians we are to be disciples of Jesus (Luke 14:26,27). We follow in the teaching and example of what He said and did. A disciple is a convert but not all converts are disciples. As disciples we are to bear our cross daily (Matt. 16:24). This means to live and die for Him if necessary (Matt. 16:25).
CARM -Theological dictionaries |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Janine
Veteran
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 360
Location: South Louisiana
|
| Posted: Thu May 30, 2002 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just going by the definitions of the words (Greek, or Aramaic as mentioned, not some American English dictionary; that would have limited viability), "apostle" has to do with being sent out on whatever mission you're told to fulfill... in the case of people like Peter and Matthew, they were sent out to spread the Gospel, thus spreading the kingdom of God. "Disciple" focuses mostly on the idea of following the one you're a student of, picking up the "discipline" of Christianity from the One.
Matthias was the replacement for Judas, unless you hold that Peter and the other 10 initial apostles were wrong to pick him. They prayed, settled on a couple of guys that fulfilled requirements of having been taught by Jesus, etc., and cast lots between the two, to take their own choice out of it & allow God leeway. That would make Paul, the one "untimely born", the 14th apostle, unless you don't even want to count Judas historically speaking; then Paul would be #13.
Paul would not fulfill the requirements the apostles used to pick Matthias, except that he made some claims about having been "taught by no man", direct teaching by Jesus through the Spirit I suppose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grace
Full Member
Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 90
Location: IL.
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2002 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Paul would not fill the requirements used to pick Matthias, except that he made claims about having been "taught by no man", direct teaching by Jesus, through the Spirit I suppose. |
Janine, what does this mean, Paul would not fill the requirements?
??? Grace |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Janine
Veteran
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 360
Location: South Louisiana
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
See chapter one of Acts; the remaining apostles, after Judas was gone, chose two men whom they felt were qualified/able to be apostles in the same way they were: Matthias and Joseph/Barsabas. They prayed about it & submitted it to God to influence the 'roll of the dice' in their choice between the two. The way Peter put it, in verses 21 & 22, the man had to have been with them from the baptism of John through the ascension of Jesus.
Who is to say exactly to what extent an apostle (in the sense of the '12 Apostles') )had to actually be there with them, following Jesus throughout His ministry? 'The Twelve' weren't physically in his presence 24/7 throughout His 3-year ministry... But, it is safe to say, I think, that the two guys chosen did fit Peter's guidelines better than Saul/Paul!
Paul was surely 'following' Jesus, or at least His disciples, to learn about them, for purposes of exterminating them if necessary, but he wasn't trailing around after Jesus like, say, Matthew or Simon the Zealot did...
There's stuff Paul writes later that makes it look just fine to me to call him, to 'let' him call himself, a disciple/apostle in the mold of Andrew, Peter, Thomas.
See Galatians 1:10-24, for one spot. Here he speaks of learning in direct revelation from Jesus the Christ, and of going to Arabia for three years after his Damascus Road encounter, before he ever went to see Peter (3 years learning from Jesus, just like the other apostles?). II Corinthians 12:2 is generally thought to be Paul talking about himself, the way John often did.
I Corinthians 15:3-11, esp. vs 8, looks to me like good support for Paul being a 'true' apostle, one like Peter and James, etc., even though his route to that place was a little unearthly.
Anyway... all that boils down to this: no, I don't believe we have apostles today, if the definition of the 'title' is to compare someone to the original (12-1)+1+1=13, and if you look at how Peter thought a man needed to be trained/inspired to aspire to be an apostle of God.
I think the people who use the term 'apostle' and apply it to preachers today are, at best, confusing folks with inexact labels which require a lot of explaining to be valid; or, at worst, almost blaspheming, because they're making claims of direct teaching and inspiration from God that would obligate a believer to follow them the same way the early church followed Peter and Paul.
Was that 'way too much answer for your elegantly simple question, honey? If so, forgive me... I tend to energizer-bunny when I'm interested in a topic! :blush: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dhutchins
Newbie
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Apostle vs. Disciples |
|
|
| I believe I read in one of the posts of the non-belief in apostles in the current day. I would just like for you to read 1 Corinthians 12:28 as to positions God has appointed in the church. The other things I would like to note about apostles is their designation is based on their assignment and calling by God. Just food for thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
