Verbal Abuse

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

what to do and to respond to verbal abuse.
That is the only thing the covesation exists
How to do you talk to some one that cannot carry on a conversation with out put down or guilts just beaten you down to a pulp.

How do you respond?
Person never apologizes, so there for there is lack of trying to talk, because it always its up verbal abuse.

how does one deal with this?

Does the bible speak clearly on this?

Bottom line I don't say much , because of fear of painful verbal abuse.

Suggestions are welcomed, I need to rise above this. Cannot continue to go on not communicating.

I have read the post on what a abuser is.
But how does one deal with a person like that?
How do you respond?

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 2164 Location: Chicago

You say, "I will not allow you to talk to me this way" and leave the room.
If they follow you and continue, say the same words again, and leave the room.

Do not engage in the same behavior.

IF they continue, you say the words again.
IF they continue, you say the words again and leave the house.

Have a place where you easily have access to an extra set of car keys, your purse and money. Give him an hour the first time to understand you will no longer accept this.

If it continues, say the same words 3 times - leave for 2 hours.
If it continues, say the same words 3 times - leave for 3 hours.
If it continues, say the same words 3 times - then leave and spend the night in a hotel or at a friend's home. Do not call to let him know where you are. There is to be no contact.

You will eventually send a message that you will no longer tolerate this behavior. It may take awhile, and it make require several weeks, but it makes them aware you will no longer stoop to their level of verbal abuse.

If it still does not improve, it is time to work on a supervised time of separation.

(Side note: A spouse who chooses to verbally abuse is usually so shocked that their behavior will no longer be tolerated, that there is great improvement.

However, I want to lay out a word of caution:

I do not know your spouse and I do not know if they are capable of physical abuse. There is a possibility that when you take a stand such as this - they will react in a physical manner. If you are physically abused, then leave your home immediately, call the police, and file an order of protection with your police department to remove the abusing spouse from your home.)

km · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:

SAM's advice is very, very good on this one.

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

Thank you for the advice. Its nice to know that I don't have to listen to it.
But then do you just forget about it, no apology is needed no need to talk about it, just forget it? Ok.

rdsmith3 · Veteran Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 391 Location: NJ

Is your question about forgiveness of an unrepentant person? Is your question should you just forget about what happened?

Here is a good article on forgiveness. Points 1. and 3. address what you are asking, I think.

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1994/868_As_We_Forgive_Our_Debtors/

If your husband is not repentant (and since he keeps doing it, one might conclude that he is not, but we do not know his heart) then you will not have a truly reconciled relationship with him. You can stand ready to completely forgive him, but the forgiveness process will not be complete until he actually asks for forgiveness. It is like our relationship with Jesus.

It is a difficult situation. Please be firm with him and make sure you do not do or say anything that will make it seem as if his abusive behavior is OK.

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

To: Sam and rdsmith3

Thanks for the advice and the information it is very helpful

I checked out the article, this explains it very well
Thank You and God Bless

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 2164 Location: Chicago

Right now, in the place you are at in your marriage, to respond to his verbal abuse is to give him permission to continue.

Let it go - yes.
Forgive - yes.

You cannot ask for an apology from someone who is so self-absorbed they do not believe they have done anything wrong.

Very simple words - I WILL NOT LET YOU SPEAK TO ME THIS WAY

There is no conversation, so bantering back and forth, no negotiating and no asking for an apology. At this point, his apology means nothing because it is not sincere.

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

Ok, everything is peaceful. Not a whole lot is being said. Nothing has been resolved (only pushed under carpet and never to be seen again until next time.) We were praying over our meal the other nite, and he mentioned to the Lord to forgive him for treating his wife so mean and enphasied on SOMETIMES. (I could hear the resistance in his voice to admit this, poor guy he just doesn't see his pride). Afterwards I looked at him and said "That was really hard for you to say, huh"? He just looked at me and then looked away. (I know he feels he hasn't done anything wrong, I can feel it, the apology is not in the heart, its just not there.

Husband is starting to warm up to me (makes me nervous, but this is normal after big blow outs). Is spending $$ on me (again). taking me out to eat, etc. Should I refuse his kindness?
Then BAM its obvious, he wants to get intimate, and makes me feel i should perform because of his kindness.
I don't have the desire. It makes me feel used (sexually). Then he thinks everything is normal and life goes on until the next out burst over this title thing. I just have no desire to play the game any more.
He doesn't think marriage has any other problems except for hse thing.
He asked what other problems are there? (shocked) I couldn't answer him, I didn't know how to explain and didn't know what to say................
I was speechless. My response was, that is why I feel we need counseling.
That was my only reply......
Im still worn down and just don't have the strength right now to get into another blow out.....................
Went to counselor found out she was not marriage counselor. and she did listen and suggested that Im a little depressed, that I need to forget about making any decisions right now, and focus on doing things that make me feel good again. (Is this worldly or what).
So she wants to see me one more time to help getting me mentally healthy about myself (Is this worldly).

My family is very concerned that all this will push me into making wrong decision and possibly costly mistake for all family.
This was my inheritence and needs to stay in the family. Husband was blessed with me paying his debt and now his paychecks are free. He doesn't have to worry about wage attachments, or social security, or if happens unemployment. His $$$ is free now.
Family feels he should be grateful and feels husband is wrong to demand anything else.

Opinions and suggestions are appreciated.

Im still trying to work through this. But right now Im feeling much better emotionally this last week and last month when I first starting posting.

I have hope, and looking into ways I can financially support myself
Also I am continuing to look for counseling.

I do continue to pray for my husband that he will wake up and realize this hse thing is not important. Our marriage is important and that we as Christians should want to do everything possible to make it healthy. I don't know how to do that and he doesn't either. That is why Im willing to go for counseling and talk he is not a talker and doesn't feel counseling will help he just doesn't see how it works. (I feel Im to keep this marriage going by myself? How can that be? Unity is needed so desparetly. So many separate things. His and hers........................
Huband has not been in church for over a month. He works on Sun
He is so used to feeding himself with cd's on what ever topic he chooses to learn. Lately, (the last year) I feel he doesn't get much out of church, we never seem to join anything to get involved.
This concerns me also. I feel like I have one foot in and one foot out.
Im just not sure where he is spiritually. Although I know and he has made it very clear to me, that he loves apologectics, (Jesus is God, and other religions don't have the right Jesus) he has never been in the area of heart things and learning and concentrating on how to apply to his life so there will be change.
He likes to try to focus on healing scriptures and cd's that teach this. Basically, he is just all over with his learning. He listens to quite a few different pastors on line he then downloads their msg and listen to and from work. I can't judge on God knows his heart. But outwardly I don't see life application. I do clearly see HEAD KNOWLEDGE.

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

Ok i really appreciate this forum and everyones posts and support.
I think God for this group being here for me to come to and vent and get support. Thank You all so much.

Fri nite H took me to nice dinner, he was being really nice (I will cut this short). I asked what the ocassion was, he just said because.
Afterwards we met daughter in law and grandkids at the gym to go swimming. Grandson (12yrs) wanted to come home with us, we say ok.
Get home H wants to start getting intimate. I just shrugged him away, (I wanted conversation, apology or some acknowledgment of the fights and verbal abuse that has been going on, I had no desire to be intimate because nothing has been resolved, so there for I would have felt used.

My thought: H can love me intimately but not love me to resolve conflict and apologies for hurtful words and treatment. He became frustrated and slept on the couch. He said it was too hot in the room that is why he did it. (I think it was somethng else).

Sat Morning: Sitting there having coffee and he asks in that tone: what have you decided on the hse? I sighed and said" Oh, lets not ruin the day, this is not a good time to talk about this (grandson is here) this did not matter. H started heating up and the fight was on. He started throwing those ugly words and spouting off. His anger was at the highest. He just kept hitting me with accusations and ugly put downs, he was out of control, I tried to reason with him (I tried to use some advice I had recieved here in how to talk with him during these times) nothing was working. He started packing some of his clothes, tools, and etc. during the packing he is still spouting off to me..........................It was ugly. I told him I can't even reason with you, everytime I try to share something with you, you cut me off and off and interupt because you don't want to hear it.
Ok, you have made up your mind before today Im sure of it. So if you want to leave then leave that is your choice. Grandson was in other room and could hear the fighting going on.
H went out the door (said to grandson "adios" and he was gone.

Somewhere in all that I recall him saying I had one month to make decision or he was divorcing me. he told me "Keep the hse and everything in it, just don't come after my stuff. He was gone.

I have enjoyed the peace and the space to get myself together and re-group mentally. Boy, that was the worst tongue lashing then before. He is getting a little more free in doing this to me.I honestly tell you, the first 9 yrs of marriage I never saw even a glimpse of this anger in him and verbal abuse..

well he called me yesterday and said he would be coming back home.
Ugh I said to myself. I told him that he had said he was leaving for a month. He said he never said that. (I know he did), this tells me he was so angry he can't even remember half the stuff he was saying.

Then he called me today (I didn't have much to say, I am leary what he could be up to if anything). He has been staying with his brothers who are as wordly as any one can get, drinking, drugs, women, etc. So yes Im concerned when he is around them normally, and even more so now. All they have on their mind is party and girls, and then not young men.

Any how he asked me how I was, I said fine. He said I really miss you, (I was shocked and had my guard up) he asked me if I still wanted to be married to him (shocked again). I told him that there are some serious problems that need to work, and I can only work at fixing myself, I can't fix someone that doesn't want to acknowledge they have problems, they have to realize that on their own and want to fix it, I can't fix you.
He said he would go to counseling, I told him that takes $$$ and we really don't have it, he said call and set it up I will come up with the $$$. (shocked again). I don't want to sound negative. This is all great coming from him, but it does scare me. My thinking: His brothers probably told him he was going about this all wrong, and he needs to warm me up and make friends with me and then maybe I will do what he is asking, and then he'll have me fooled big time.
Im not sure what to do with all this, it sounds like a complete turn around, but then it could be just another set up.
I have had trouble finding a counselor for myself and she really wasn't that helpful. She just listened and said "well, I see your a little depressed what is want? I told her I wanted to fix me, what is wrong with me, why do I think this way, why, why. She said not to make any decisions right now, to rest and do something I enjoy doing, get focused on something else. I begged her to see me again even though she thought it not needed. She stated well I guess i could and scheduled me for the following month to come in and see how i was doing..................
Im going to look for a marriage counselor (not sure how to go about finding a good one )and pray that my H will continue to go and not quite after a couple of times. I have heard it gets worse before it gets better, hope H can hang in there, I think I will manage ok).

What do i do with all this. How am I supposed to react to him, i want him to know I care and still have feelings, but I can't get close to him right now, (this is probably going to tick him off, but he just doesn't understand the damage he has done to me emotionally).
Am I wrong to feel this way and is my thinking off?
I don't even know how to go about being wise in this any other way then to take one day at a time to see if any flags go up.

Trusting in God he is going to walk me through this one!!!!!!

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 2164 Location: Chicago

I think I have mentioned before - there must be a proven track record. This usually takes 6 months to a year of consistent counseling. A track record cannot be seen in a few weeks of counseling.

He has to show you there is a willingness to make serious changes in himself. And, when you get into counseling, that he does not sit there and blame you for his behavior or actions.

You can talk with the counselor about your need to be cherished, have trust in him, and respect from him. Intimacy will not happen if the verbal onslaughts continue. He needs to know this.

It's a shame that your grandson had to hear this. A real shame. It reveals a great deal about your husband and his heart.

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

Here we go again.......................
Husband called me this morning on his way to work.

He asked me why I was doing this to him. All he wants is his name on hse. Why am I being so difficult, I owe it to him.
I tried to explain (for the millionth time) Im not trying to screw him and Im not using him I feel that this mis trust is coming from what ex wife did to him hiding his kids for all those years. I have never done anything to make him not trust me.
He justifies his anger and verbal abuse because I have not done my part and put him on title.
He was telling me this morning again all my faults and short comings, he said why am I doing this to him, that Iam abusing him with this hse. He deserves to be put on it somehow. I again told him I am not using him and never was. I told him regardless, that in no way makes it right for him to emotionally tear me down because he is not getting what he wants when he wants it. I told him that with his anger issue we have not be able to discuss this and get past this point that he can't keep his cool, I told him that he is not taking my feelings into consideration and he gets mad because Im not thinking of his feelings.
I told him I do think about his feelings and that is why I have been trying to talk with ppl and find resources to help me to understand how I can do this in away that Im comfortable with and be satisfied with my decision.
He doesn't want to listen to that. He just kept going on about the hse and how mean I am being and this is why has done what he has and why his anger comes out like that.
Bottom line: He said you know this is going to end up in divorce court. I told him "well, that doesn't sound like you care about the marriage, there are more to it then this hse and you don't want to recognize there are other issues, and that still does not give you the right to emotionally tear me down like you have been, that does not give you the right to talk and treat me the way you have been. Putting pressure on me and turning the fire up is not working, can't you see that? It takes time and money to make a right decision on this, its hard to go and see lawyer with out $$ to pay for consultation and I have to somewhat know what I'm doing and be able to ask the right questions to better understand the legal aspects of what Iam doing and also be able to understand how I can protect my share. This has been my point all along, but you don't want to listen and understand my feelings about doing this. You are destroying the marriage going about it the way you are, I have told you this so many times, you just don't want to be patient and let me work this out . Every time we have this conversation it ends up the same way, I listen to you tell me all my faults and what Im doing wrong, but we never talk about how your anger issues and verbal abuse, this seems to be okay with you, that you have rights to treat me this way because you are not getting what you want when you want it, you say if I will just put your name on, you will no longer act and treat me like this................
The conversation ended badly again, nothing resolved just hashed over the same ole thing. I still here the ultimatium, do it or else divorce.

Why can't he hear me, why can't he back down and let up on the pressure he keeps hashing over the same ole thing the hse. We never can talk about the other issues, there is never conversation about I know its wrong me treating you like this, I just don't get it. Does he not understand what Im trying to say to him? It sounds like he doesn't hear me, I can't seem to express it any better to him. His fear tactics, verbal abuse and anger has not made this any easier for me, and it has also made me fearful of him, and makes me think and feel that our marriage is nothing (feelings, consideration, etc) none of that means any thing. Its just this hse......................................
I told him so I get to where I can get enough info to make this decisoin and know that I did it wisely and then its done. What then? Im supposed love and respect you and we go on with our marriage like nothing ever happen? No hard feelings, trust and love like we were newly weds?

Im in a state of fear and emotions are rising again.
Im confused. Yesterday conversation was so mellow and different.
This morning rage and anger and put downs and ultimatim are back.

Whoa, I can't figure him out, am I stupid, blind or what?????
I don't trust...........................Why by this time can't he see what he is doing to me and the marriage. There has been no apology for his actions, he just keeps justifying them with this hse deal.
Am I wrong and is he right that Im causing him to do these things to me because Im having trouble making this decision (only because I have not gotten enough info and have had trouble knowing where to go and find resources.
One minute he says he will go to lawyer with me, then next conversation the pressure is on me to get it done.
yesterday, it was Yes he will go to counseling set it up, he will get money to pay for it.
Today, conversation was not nice, it was about how Im mean and he is acting this way because Im not putting name on, its my fault he is acting this way (his anger and verbal abuse) its all my fault, if I wouldn't be reluctant he wouldn't be acting and treating me like this.
I guess what he is trying to tell me is: once hse issue is taken care of, he will no longer act and treat me like this, that is what Im reading between the lines...
Oh, brother this is driving me crazy, and the guilt is there its all my fault...................
It blows me away that this is supposed to be acceptable. Im at fault for all this because not making decision quick enough?
This change in him, from one day to the next, conversation yesterday sounding like we were working on making some progress.
Today, its sounds the same as before, the same ole stuff, anger, put down, fault finding.......................

I need support so desperately. This is when things get foggy for me. I don't know how to read him.....................

I just feel the pressure. (no sinceretiy on his part, just justification that its okay for him to be acting and going about it in this way, Im wrong and its all my fault). Where is there love, respect, understanding, compassion.
How can I give these things to him, when all I feel is pressure and fear?

The phone call ended with him hanging up.....

I feel there is almost nothing left of feelings for ths marriage, I see alot of work to repair all the emotional damage that has been done Im not sure he would even change back to who I thought he was. First nine years of marriage I never saw this anger and have never been treated like this, it has my walls up, from past treatments in relationships. It would be a long haul for me, I just don't think I would have husbands support.
I feel the tiger has come out of his cage, (I feel he has always had anger issues from his past marriage and never in a healhty way dealt with them, so here is another thing that he had to deal with and could not control anger, I believe it is a problem for him. Could I be wrong in saying this?

He keeps saying that $60,00 (equity of home is his, I owe this to him.

Im thinking ( I wish I could stop thinking) maybe I should just refinance hse and give him his $$$$, because this seems to be the importance of all this (his share $$$, that is what he is mostly concerned about) and let marriage go.
The hse mkt is really really low right now, not sure what equity is in the hse right now.
$$$$ is the issue here, I don't believe he cares about the marriage, at least that never comes up in conversation what I hear loudly is he wants on the hse so it is legal he will get his $$$$ no matter what. That is mainly what I hear.........................nothing about marriage issue feelings, respect, emotions, etc.
I feel no other way to deal with this anymore. To many things have come into this marriage because of the hse, and Im running out of emotions and just cannot clearly read between the lines as to what his true motive is. I can think I know his motive, but these actions just totally blow me away so it clouds the real issues.
I truly believe the issue is $$$. His eyes lit up that day I recieved my inheritence, he was already counting and adding it up, (this surprised me a little, but because he is sort of a child and came from a very poor family this amt of $$$ was amazing to him Im sure, I think possibly there has been envy of what I was blessed with from the very beginning.
I did not set guide lines in the beginning because I was surprised and over whelmed with what I had been blessed with, so yes Im at fault there, did not plan this out well, mentally i was incapable of even thinking that it would come to all this. I was not responsible with this responsiblity placed on me.
I have just been fighting to be able to fulfill the obligations placed on me with recieving this inheritence, my only sole intention was to safeguard what is to be passed down to my family, and so many other things have come into play to distract me of go forward with this, be it lack of knowledge and resources in the beginning, now marriage issue has been brought into it, anger issues, verbal abuse issues, and fear, all these things have effectied my thinking clearly on taking care of business, and put emotions off tilt, everything is so foggy to me right now, can't think clearly but Im trying but it has been hard to decipher through all this for me.

rdsmith3 · Veteran Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 391 Location: NJ

I think I really understand your situation. The other person is using anger to try to control the situation. You feel as if you are walking on egg shells because you do not know from one minute to the next if the person is angry or not.

My suggestion is that you have to break the control; break the recurring pattern of behavior; but still reassure him that you love him. As Sam said, you have to be firm and clear with your boundaries, and not accept verbal abuse. It is difficult, but try not to get sucked into the verbal battles. (I am guilty of this myself in my marriage.) You can control your words, behaviors and responses to him.

I recently picked up a book (on the 1/2 price table at the Christian book store) but have not read it yet. It is "Boundaries" by McCloud and Townsend. Perhaps this would be helpful for you.

As you take away his ability to control you with his anger, keep in mind that it is possible that things could get worse before they get better.

I pray for healing in your marriage.

confused77 · Junior Member Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 48 Location: CA

Thank you,

I have been controlling myself in the verbal abuse. I don't say anything back to him, I leave and walk away.

But every time we talk any more its this issue, and he is forceful in what he says, thats all he talks about, nothing else and then when I try to tell him Im sorry he thinks Im out to screw him, he cuts me off and starts with verbal abuse and again and again he says " I don't know why your having difficulty with giving me 1/2 of hse . Then i say to him this was an inheritence its not like we both took our money and purchased home. There is no 1/2 like most married couples do, none of your money went in to purchase home. I worked to to help pay for loan that was taken out to pay off your debt. Its only been a year that I have not worked and that was because you told me that I didn't have to right now that I could take some time off to recoop from abuse at work. Then he changed and said I mean 1/2 of the equity in the home is mine. I'v lived there 5 yrs Im entitled to 1/2 the equity.
The bottom line is I don't even know how to go about putting someone on title for only 1/2 of equity I don't even know if you can do that. Then in conversation it comes up he says" Oh, so now Im only entitled a years worth thats it?
Gosh, Im being pulled into something I know nothing about $$$$ business deals, I don't have the mentallity for this clearly. I don't even know what would be fair, Im stupid and ignorant in this area.
He is very good with figure $$$$, and getting the most for his dollar, he is very good in this area, I am not. So I can't even begin to negotiate a figure I just to ignorant, I need help so that I don't shor myself.

Can anyone understand what Im saying. On the other hand I being told Im unfair and relentless about his feelings. This is not intentional on my part and I can't seem to get him to understand this.
so I take it as he is trying to get over on me with all this guilt and pressure and he knows I don't have the means to go to lawyer right this second, I need to wait until im paid from babysitting and then i will definetly see lawyer, that is going to be next month that I get pd, Im pd on a monthly basis. There isn't much I can do right this moment.
He won't let up..........................................

rdsmith3 · Veteran Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 391 Location: NJ

It is a familiar scenario -- he is abusive (and condescending?) to you, but he is trying to make it seem like you are doing something to him, as if he is a victim.

I really can't give you advice on the house situation, but perhaps you could tell him that you need to get advice from an attorney or someone like that?

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 2164 Location: Chicago

Unless he is willing to go to counseling to work on your marital issues, he does not get put on the house.

When a spouse is abusive, why reward them for their abuse? There is no sense in that. From what you describe, this is a man who has no love for God, or has walked very far away from him. His desire is not to honor and cherish you as his wife, but to break you down so far and pummel you into the ground that you no longer know yourself. His plans are to harm you, not protect you as his wife.

As for him blaming you for his abuse - that blame rest squarely on his shoulders. He is making a choice to behave in an abusive manner. You are not responsible for his actions - his actions and words are his own.

He is doing everything he can to control, coerce, blame and intimidate.
My honest gut feeling about your situation is - once you do what he asks, he will do everything he can to get his hands on the money and leave.
He is cunning... he knows how to manipulate.

God does not tell us as Christians to roll over, lovingly play dead and let someone walk all over us. Until you can seek the wise counsel of a Christian attorney, stand firm.

Do not make a decision about your home until you have all your questions answered. And, let you husband know you will not make a decision until he goes to counseling with you, and you seek the advice of an attorney. It's that simple.

Matthew 10:16 - "Stay alert. This is hazardous work I'm assigning you. You're going to be like sheep running through a wolf pack, so don't call attention to yourselves. Be as cunning as a snake, inoffensive as a dove.

Here is a partial commentary on this verse and the reasoning behind Christ's words -

Persecutors are worse than beasts, in that they prey upon those of their own kind. The strongest bonds of love and duty, have often been broken through from enmity against Christ. Sufferings from friends and relations are very grievous; nothing cuts more.

It appears plainly, that all who will live godly in Christ Jesus must suffer persecution; and we must expect to enter into the kingdom of God through many tribulations. With these predictions of trouble, are counsels and comforts for a time of trial. The disciples of Christ are hated and persecuted as serpents, and their ruin is sought, and they need the serpent's wisdom. Be ye harmless as doves. Not only, do nobody any hurt, but bear nobody any ill-will.

Prudent care there must be, but not an anxious, perplexing thought; let this care be cast upon God.

The disciples of Christ must think more how to do well, than how to speak well. In case of great peril, the disciples of Christ may go out of the way of danger, though they must not go out of the way of duty. No sinful, unlawful means may be used to escape; for then it is not a door of God's opening.

The fear of man brings a snare, a perplexing snare, that disturbs our peace; an entangling snare, by which we are drawn into sin; and, therefore, it must be striven and prayed against.

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