Prayer - How to pray to move the hand og God.

kelly · Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:44 am Post subject:

We're told to pray without ceasing, right? Well, what does that mean? And for what purpose? I ask these questions b/c I have recently been "debating" with a friend online about the purpose, and strength, of prayer. Here's what I believe;

We're told to pray without ceasing, which leads me to believe there is a purpose behind it! God wants to hear our prayers. He wants to be glorified and thanked, but He also wants us to come to Him with our burdens so He can lighten our loads, "Come to Me all thoses who are weary and burdened..." Matt. 11:28. He also wants to answer our requests, "You have not b/c you ask not" (Anybody know where that one is?).

In order to have prayers answered I believe there are some "ingredients" that can make your prayers stronger, spicier! First, begin by thanking Him for the good in a situation you may be facing, for a recent blessing, or simply for Him! What parent wouldn't be touched and softened by a child that begins a conversation with praise and thanksgiving?! Not to mention it's the least we could do for Him! Then ask for specifics. We want a complete healing for our daughter of juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, so we pray for a complete healing! We don't ask for remission, we ask for healing. When God decides to answer, I want the whole deal! Again, "You have not b/c you ask not" (Gotta find that scripture location!). I also believe in persistence. If I give up, why should I still expect Him to deliver? He may, if it's in His plan regardless, but my persistence moves the hand of God. Three examples off the top of my head; Abraham persisting with God to spare Sodom for the sake of 50, 45, 40, 30, 20, 10 people. God listened to his persistence and granted him an "OKAY" (Personally, I don't know if I would have been brave enough to stand next to His presence and bargain!). Second, God led the Israelites out of Egypt b/c of thier persistence. "I have heard my people's cry..." Exodus 3:7. The people had prayed incessantly for deliverence, and God heard! Had they not been so persistent in thier prayer, would God have been moved to save them? Don't know...maybe it would have taken longer..., but what we do know is that they lifted up constant prayer, and God did eventually move. Third example is in Daniel 10. Daniel had ben persistent in his prayer and a messenger from heaven had been sent to him. The messenger got held up in a battle with a force of darkness, but b/c of Daniel's persistence in his prayers, Michael was sent to take over the battle so the messenger could continue on to answer Daniel's prayers. We give power and strength to the angels when we pray (Anybody read "This present Darkness"? Great depiction...).

I believe God hears ALL prayers. Some He chooses to answer right away, some He has a plan for, and some don't get answered. We will never know why He works the way He does, but from reading the word of God, and from personal experience, praying like I described above moves the hand of God in situations that otherwise may not have changed, or at least not as quickly.

Anybody agree? Disagree? Have more input? Lord knows I'm far from an expert, there's always more to be learned...

eddie · Newbie Joined: 16 Jan 2002 Posts: 5

Kelly, nice job! You said it well.

For a really deep response, I'll wait for one of our "scholars" to contribute! :blush:

Here's my experience:

When I'm most tuned-in to God, I sense His leadings, I sense Him communicating through events and opportunities he presents to me.

For example, most days I’m praying that Jabez prayer: “God expand my territory; Bless me; Give me opportunities to impact people.” Then I listen.

If you’re tuned-in, and just take a few risks throughout the day, you’d be amazed how often God is working – and answering prayer. Often it means leaving your comfort zone and doing “something”. Sometimes God answers prayer by working through me.

Answered prayer might be “answered” in a different way than you requested. Most of the time, I’m sure, we aren’t aware of answered prayer.

Other times you’ll trace an event years back to a prayer you prayed, and you’ll say, “Wow! God did it!”. But you need to always be thinking spiritually.

Faith and consistency are key too [as you said].

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1946 Location: Chicago

One of the most obvious ways my husband and I have come to recognize answered prayer is through journaling. Even what we may consider to be the smallest most insignificant things are often answered when we least expect it. We often ask for that one big thing, then get angry with God because He doesn't answer our prayer in the way we asked Him to. We often don't consider that He has a better plan for us and may answer in a completely different way that we ever anticipated. Usually, much better than what we originally asked for. Also, we want prayer answered and answered RIGHT NOW! No patience, no learning, no wisdom gained, just I want it now Lord. We have also learned to be very, very specific in our requests. Give Him every single tiny detail of what is needed. It is amazing how He loves those tiny details!

We have some friends who we have prayed for for 15 years to come to a church service with us. That door was finally opened this year. Was it frustrating at times, of course. Were we turned down many times, you bet. Have we seen that God's plan in this was His own timing, without a doubt!

I have to go back to the question, what is the heart condition of the person praying? Do they truly believe God answers, heals and wants to provide. Is their heart soft and vulnerable or has it become hardened and cynical?

I'm still looking for that one verse for you, Kelly.

kelly · Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:17 am Post subject:

Great reply Sam! You're so right, God does answer in His time, and His plan is so much better! There have been times in my life I prayed for something to happen and didn't see my prayers answered. Then, later on, I realized He had answered! One big instance was with my DH. I knew I was called to be submissive to him and he was to lead the household. Our whole lives though, I had been the one in control and he had been babied at home. This carried into our marraige and we knew it was out of order. We made attempts on our own to change, but to no avail. Then I read, and re-read, and am still reading, "Power of a Praying Wife". I began praying for God to give my husband, not me, the wisdom, and the strength to lead. I prayed I would be given a more humble attitude. I wanted my husband to lead me, but I didn't see it happening! Suddenly it occured to me, he was leading! He had taken over the finances, he was leading devotionals every night, he was pursuing prayer together daily...God had answered my prayers! Of course, we're both still learning and growing, but the Lord is guiding us b/c of our prayers to be changed and to glorify Him! Elders in our church have approached us and told us they see such a difference in my husband (they watched him grow up and make many mistakes, so this sudden maturity in these past few years, especially taking on a wife with two children already, was a BIG surprise for those who knew him best!). They say they have never seen him better and they have approved of our growth many times. We don't take credit, we give glory to God! He has changed us, taught us, led us...Praise God!

There were other times I was praying for things that were ungodly and He didn't answer. I wa mad at the time, but later on was thankful He hadn't answered!

Most recently we have been praying for a healing for our daughter who has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. No healing has happened yet, but we hold onto the promise that God has a plan. We still pray feverishly for healing, but He has a plan. If healing is His portion for her, then we pray until it happens. If other plans are intended for her, we place her into His hands. We also pray for comfort to help us through the hard times.

Thanks for replying, I am always interested in hearing others opinions and testimonies! God Bless!

YSIC, Kelly.

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

Prayer is not to change God's hands, but rather it is to change our minds.

While God listens to our prayers, the future is already known to him. God in my opinion doesn't change his mind/plans.

If one is praying for a miracle there is a 50/50 chance what "you" want will happen. If it is in God's plan that you get that miracle; praise the Lord that he had you in his plan long ago.

But if the miracle does not happen, be thankful for the character it will build in you going forward.

Pray for wisdom and the ability to deal with the future outcome of our Lord's plan. Because the trials and testing is to prepare us for heaven and his company. This is after all the goal of our life on earth.

kelly · Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:22 pm Post subject:

Ok, glad you responded to the post...

I have a question regarding your answer;

If you do not believe that prayer can change God's plans (so to speak), then what is the point in praying? I don't believe we can manipulate God, but I do believe that prayer moves God's hand in situations He normally wouldn't move in. Kind of like He has a will for our life, but we have the ability to stir up that will, bring it to pass. I hope I'm wording this right, this issue can be sticky and I want my opinion to be expressed correctly!

Please, post again...we can always learn from one another if it's done in love... :inlove:

YSIC, Kelly.

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

Will God change his mind in your case?

"Your" answer, yes or no depends on how you view God.

Is God a father who is working with his children, wondering what they will do next? Does he have a "good idea" of what we do in the future? Or does he know exactly? Is God bored and wants to have his children ask for things?

Think about this - God already knows who coming to heaven.

If God already knows what is going to happen, and he isn't going to change his plans, then why pray in the first place. Think about this, Jesus died on the cross for our sins. A debt had to be paid in order for God to accept us into heaven. God has a plan, and in my opinion he doesn't change it.

Well the purpose of prayer is not to change Gods mind, but to simply communicate your concerns and needs with our Father in heaven.

I think I heard that "amen" means "if it is your will" or "by your will"

tough questions making you think, and hopefully increase your desire to be closer to God, AND also share your faith with others.

kelly · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 12:58 pm Post subject:

I could be a little off here, but I understand God's will this way; He has a will, a purpose for you since before you were born. Some are made to be teachers, some musicians, some pastors, etc. We all have God given gifts that are supposed to be for His glory and will. He does want us to fulfill that plan, but having free will, it's up to us. I've heard it said that He has your deliverance already planned before you even know there is a problem. However, I am not so sure He knows everything. If He did, what rejoicing would there be for every man saved, every praise offered up? He would already know it would happen, why be so happy we "choose" His way? That kind of negates the whole free will concept then, doesn't it? I "choose" to live a Christ-centered life, my neighbor doesn't. That's not God, that's free will. She may change, she may not. I'm not so sure God knows. He is all-knowing in that He knows what is in our hearts right now, what we are all doing right now, even what we may have to face sometime in the future. I don't think He knows exactly how we will handle the future though, what we will do. If this was the case, we're kind of like puppets just existing for His amusement, aren't we? I am a little fuzzy myself on this, but that's how I perceive it. I did talk to a pastor once about it and he confirmed how I felt (not that all pastors are right either...).

I have seen people healed thru prayer. If they didn't pray, or get prayed for, are you saying they would have received that healing anyway? ...That God already knows whether He will do it or not? If so, there really is no need to pray for healing and such b/c our prayers won't make a difference if He already has a plan that He won't change. What about Abraham in the desert asking God to spare Sodom for the sake of 50....? God said He was going to destroy all of it regardless. Then, b/c Abraham sought favor with Him, He decided to spare those who were righteous. Abraham won His FAVOR, which is what I believe we can do thru prayer and obedience (along with the right heart). We can receive His favor, which would mean that we sort of changed things thru prayer. I do not beleive everything is set in stone. God does have a plan, but it's a rough draft of sorts...the final product is up to us.

Please, more feedback (from all!)

YSIC, Kelly :rolleyes:

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

Did Abraham win Gods favor and change his mind?

Think about it, God did what he said he was going to do from the start. He allowed Abraham to ask for mercy for the people, but in the end God didn't change is orginal plan.

We have free will, and will screw up. We don't know where we will end up, but God knows, no matter how many time we change course. Look at your Kids while not as good as God at it, we can sometimes predict were they will end up, regardless of how much they rebel.

In the Christian world today there is no "one face of God". There are different "human" opinions about God's "personality". Nice God, Mean God, Friendly God, Strict God, Happy God, Bored God, Playful God, etc.

How we define/view God determines the answers to our questions, or better it tailors our answers towards our human nature point of view, doesn't it Smile

We can't imagine a God with everything already layout. Regardless of what God's plans are for us, we must work on it everyday, not so much to gain salvation that we achieved through are faith in Jesus Christ, BUT rather to make sure we don't loose it.

We don't want to risk loosing out on heaven. Remember there is a devil who is working to trip us up. While God knows the outcome "we" do not, so we must do "everything" in "our" power and the holy spirt to insure our victory.

webacus · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:58 pm Post subject:

Dave
I remember an illustration in the bible about a woman who continually bothers a judge; I mean relentlessly bugs him to get what she wants. And she did.

The lesson was to not give up -- keep asking, keep praying.
So... can we influence God's decisions?

We'll maybe since His timeline is different [He knows the past, present and future], maybe since he knew we'd be praying about a certain issue, His "plan" was to answer the prayer we prayed today! :rolleyes:

New question... Dave you said:

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

Webacus

Interesting twist you added there about God knowing the past, present, and future. I agree God knows what we end up doing. So pray when you feel the need, and don't consider the outcome as a prerequisite for praying in the first place. Wink

As far as my

webacus · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 9:00 pm Post subject:

:rolleyes: Dave, I smell a new topic. I'll start a new one...

Look for new topic here!

kelly · Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2002 8:17 am Post subject:

Hi Dave! I actually am enjoying these posts, we can always learn more through each other...

You are right in that God did follow through with His original plan regarding Sodom, but didn't Abraham win His favor in that Lot was saved? Do you think Lot and his daughters would have been saved if Abraham had not sought God's favor? God does have some things in His plan that will not change regardless of whether we pray or not. Sometimes we'll mess something up that wasn't in God's plans, but He will turn it around for good and use it. I have been sexually abused, I don't believe that was in His plans, but now, through Him, I have been healed and will help other women. Not exactly God's perfect plan, but will be used ultimately for good. Also, if our prayer doesn't influence God, how do you explain healing miracles? I have used this scripture before, "You have not b/c you ask not". We all know that one (though I still can't find it's location!). If Jesus says we don't have something b/c we haven't asked for it, that leads me to believe that God is waiting for me to pray in order to answer my prayers. That would mean He is actually waiting on me, my free will, to bring about His plans...

Dave, please don't take offense to our difference in opinions. This is how we grow and learn. Very Happy

Someone posed a question during my last post about the fall of Lucifer, and through a little investigation I found that what I had thought was wrong. I ended up answering my own question! I now understand something more clearly than before b/c someone gave me something to think about and investigate...

YSIC, Kelly :inlove:

Davep · Veteran Joined: 02 Apr 2002 Posts: 463

Christian message boards are very mild. I don't take offense at anything said, as we are being conformed to his image through our discussions.

God's Plan and God's Knowledge of the past, present, and future at two different things. God's plan for us may be to walk from our home to the store. What "happens" along the way is your free will, which is subject to everyone elses free will also; good or bad. Also we must take into account our sin, In my opinion it is NOT in God's plan for us to sin, although he certianly has the knowledge that we will and did.

Along that walk from our house to the store, some pretty bad things can happen AND some pretty good things happen also. What causes the bad things to happen? Are bad things part of God's plan?

In my opinion the bad things which happen in our lives are the result of each one of us screwing up, and also the Devil's countless successes in tempting people. When bad things happen to us, it wasn't part of God's Plan, but it is part of his knowledge.

Prayer is alway part of God's plan, asking for help, wisdom, direction is always an intergal part of that plan. I think of God's Plan as a railroad track traveling accross the countryside. God looks out accross the countryside as he travels, the track is God's part of countryside/earth. But for now the Devil has the rest of the earth. We live in a battlefield, and prayer, the word, and other fellow christians are our tools for now.

Prayer is God's tool for us to stay/find on track/plan
Very Happy

When bad things happen to us as a result of our nature or the Devil successful temptions, God may use them to sharpen us, and make us stronger, but they weren't part of his plan, only a part of his knowledge.

Oh yes Abraham, Lot, and God?
God never changed his plan to destory the towns of Sodom and Gomorah. That he did, and it was destoryed, the towns and everyone in it. Lot and his family were not in the town. God sent his angels to remove them. God had other plans for Lot and his family, excluding his wife who we all know became table salt.
:rolleyes:

webacus · Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2002 12:27 pm Post subject:

Dave.. I like the Clark Kent avatar! :p

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