PORN Recovery

jlc · Newbie Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 17

Here's the direct link to the article. I had to get my 5th post in before I could add a hyperlink.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/march/18.28.html

km · Full Member Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 97

I understand that your wife thinks a female counselor is necessary so that she is understood. Perhaps she should consider whether it might be beneficial to have some input from a male counselor. It is your behavior that she seems to think is "the problem" and it might be helpful if the counselor has that sort of first hand knowledge/experience regarding the male condition.

Problems with porn (and other lust related issues) are nearly universal with men in current American culture. Does she understand the visual wiring of men? And how common this problem is with men?

While it is good that she gets someone she can relate to as a woman. She might need also need a little help understanding this pandemic male problem (she is not likely to find a male that hasn't had some problems in this area).

jlc · Newbie Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 17

We have been to a male Christian counselor several times. She feels he could not understand her. She felt "bashed" because as a Christian he stated she had no grounds for not forgiving me.
She was not comfortable with him. He was pretty straight forward, which I don't mind but she would like someone a bit more gentle. So, she feels she needs the understanding from a woman's point of view.

I personally feel she is so caught up with anger, hate and unforgiveness that she cannot 'see' anything past that. So, until she has an outlet for her feelings and is able to get reassurance and feedback she will not be able to become healthy again. She is often depressed and the littlest thought can set her off.

As far as understanding men and this sexual culture we live in, she doesn't seem to care. She feels that explanations are only excuses for behavior. I take full responsibility for my own behavior, though I am also aware how my past and today's culture have assisted in my addiction.

She has not learned to control her thoughts or words yet, which our counselor did suggest we both learn to do. Since I have to do it all the time to stay clear of lust and images in my head. It makes since that she learns to do the same thing, which would help her recovery.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

jlc · Newbie Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 17

Wow! Sam, that was tough. I argee with you, though. I know my wife feels the way you described porn as adultery. And, again I do agree with that explanation.
I am in no way trying to hurry her towards forgiveness. Okay, maybe a little. But, I don't know how long our marriage and family can survive in it's current state.

My five year old asked me the other day, before my wife came home from a trip, that how come I love mommy if she doesn't love me? OUCH!! It's bad when a 5 yo notices so much disharmony in a marriage relationship.

I am fully committed to doing whatever to restore my marriage, but I need her to meet me along the way somewhere. I know it will take years to rebuild the trust and integrity in our marriage, but there has to come a time when we can live in peace without the worry or threat of divorce lingering in the background everyday.

Sam, please respond again. I am appreciating your feedback as a female and marriage mentor.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

The sooner she can start seeing a female counselor, the better things will get. Right now all these feelings are stuffed into a glass that is overflowing. She doesn't know what to do with them, except spit them at you. You're the one who hurt her, you're the one who deserves to be hurt back. Yes, I would call that revenge. But until she sees a counselor on a consistent (weekly) basis, change is not likely to occur.

km · Full Member Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 97

SAM - I don't dispute your take on porn (either generally or from a woman's perspective). But it isn't unforgivable. And it is nearly ubiquitous with men.

Somewhere along the line it ought to sink in that if she can not deal with a man who has ever had a porn/lust problem, then she is very unlikely to ever find any man to deal with (they undoubtably exist - but there are very few of them). Does she prefer being alone for the rest of her life? Perhaps. I can't say. But that s a highly likely result of taking both a hard line stance and not being able to forgive a past transgression.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

Not a problem - I fully understand.

Some men and women are able to work through adultery well, others have a very difficult time and their marriages do not survive. Same thing with pornography. It's a process and a very long one. On average, it will take 2-3 years to work through healing.

The healing process greatly improves when the individual with the addiction truly shows signs of brokenness, repentance and accountability through counseling and help groups. As well as putting a circle of other brothers and sisters in Christ around them for true community. When any kind of blame is turned around toward the offended party, then healing becomes close to impossible.

FaithHopeJoy · Full Member Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 95

That's a really interesting comment, SAM:

"When any kind of blame is turned around toward the offended party, then healing becomes close to impossible."

I love my husband very much and continue to trust that God's design for our marriage has a joyful future - even though my H hasn't shown me any affection or wanted any intimacy in our relationship for over a year (unlike some of the remorseful spouses described on this forum). This is the same man who, two years earlier at our 25th anniversary party, moved our family and guests almost to tears by describing me as his other 'rock' - next to God. Bear in mind that he is a missionary. He also cares deeply about his reputation.

My H still doesn't acknowledge the hurt that his transgressions have caused. Although he assures me that he has conquered these sins (and I believe him), he justifies his recent behaviour by insisting that I wasn't being a submissive wife and I was too self-sufficient, which I recognise now.

Reading your response makes me realise we have a way to go before healing can take place. We are starting to talk, with our mentor's support. As you have often said, so wisely, healing can't be hurried. With God's help, I'll continue to focus on God and on what I can do for my H - rather than what he can do for me! Some days that's SOOOO hard!
Smile

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

It's all about ownership of our sin - blame lies solely on our shoulders.
Unfortunately, the sins of Adam and Eve still continue to haunt us.

Remember Genesis 3:12?
The man replied, "It was the woman you gave me who gave me the fruit, and I ate it."
Then in Genesis 3:13 - Eve says, "The serpent deceived me, that's why I ate it."

The blame game started a long time ago. Laughing

Talking with my husband last night about this whole string on Porn Recovery - it's a sensitive topic for many.

He did share with me, that there isn't a man alive who doesn't desire to look at a naked woman - God did an awesome job with the female anatomy. And, I would say many a woman appreciates a naked man. However, we can train our eyes to look down, to avoid and to be open with our friends and spouses when we struggle. Gawking, turning our heads to look and making comments allows lust to walk right in the door to our hearts (it's that sin problem). Accountability and community are the key.

For the first ten years of our marriage, my husband subscribed to Playboy. By today's standards that's very mild porn. But once we became believers, I spoke with him about how much it bothered me to have this in our home and how it minimized his desire for me. He spoke with a few of his male friends about it and canceled his subscription.
He offered to put the necessary filters on our computers to protect our entire family.

We all struggle with our eyes and our thoughts - that's part of our human condition. Many women struggle with romance novels and try to get their husbands to live up to the men in these books - which sets their husbands up for failure. Many women struggle with porn as well.

It becomes a sin problem when we desire these things more than we desire our relationship with God. It becomes our golden calf. This desire burns in us and consumes our thoughts, our lives and destroys intimacy in our marriages.

Sin does not have to consume us. We don't have to spend time in front of a computer looking - that's a deliberate and willful choice to engage in looking at online pornography. For some of us, we were exposed very young by parents, older siblings and friends against our will. We were subjected to the sexual perversions of others which causes us deep pain.

There is still a choice we make along the way - to sin or not to sin. We can allow lust to consume us, or to walk away and lay these thoughts in God's hands and ask him to take them from us. Our minds and our hearts can be changed to think and respond like Christ.

Counseling, support groups and accountability with other Christians can change the path we walk.

We have to be willing to put on the shoes.

km · Full Member Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 97

SAM - "I think there are more good men and women out there than you believe."

I am only 49 and only active in a number of groups (several of them church related). I would have to say that my experience with other men leads to me estimate that the men without a lust/porn problem are somewhere in the low single digit percentage range (say, 5% or less). The topic comes up frequently and I have yet to hear any man (not one single solitary man) indicate that it is not a problem for him - some fight it pretty well, but it is still a problem. The problem is indeed that widespread and it would be a disservice to the women here to make them think it is not a nearly universal struggle for men.

I don't think that a man who has had (past) a problem with lust/porn is not good. I think that many men are battling the problem with great but not entirely successful effort, and I don't think thay are not good men either. None of us is perfectly good, and this area is the big one that men struggle with in manifesting our imperfection.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1950 Location: Chicago

You know - it's OK to disagree. We don't have to be on the same page about everything in these forums.

There is a difference between lustful thoughts, viewing porn and addiction.
We need to dissect all three.

Lustful thoughts will always be there with men - it's part of how they are hard wired. For a woman to think that this does not occur in the man she is married to or dating, would be a disservice. It doesn't mean that 95% of men view porn to satisfy lustful thoughts and develop addictions because of it.

There is a diffference between normal sexual desire and conduct with addictive compulsions. A person can have a very strong sexual appetite and not be a sex or porn addict.

Is every man tempted - I would say yes. To say 95% of men will follow through on their temptations is a disservice to the women who participate in this forum. That is simply not true.

There is a lot of research and statistics that I could provide. Would that be beneficial? I'm not so sure. Let me know.

jlc · Newbie Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 17

Here is another good article I just read. It could apply to women as well as men.

http://www.crosswalk.com/marriage/11570749/page1

I plan on offering this to my wife to read tonight. She may or may not, but I feel it may be of some help for her. At least there is something for her to read and grasp until we are able to find a female counselor for her.

We are planning on attending a marriage retreat weekend in May. Hopefully it will be of some help and support as well.

secured · Full Member Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 113

I can only give my perspective on this whole matter of porn, adultery, etc. I understand your wife's anger, justifiable hurt, and lack of trust. We have been stabbed in the back by the one person whom we have trusted everything with. There is such a feeling of despair at the beginning. It's almost to much to comprehend all at once. Our first reaction is to flee. Get away from the source of the pain. Which happens to be the very person we have in the past ran to for comfort. It's so hard to suddenly not have our husbands to lean on. It's like suddenly waking up with a stranger next to us. My husband was my best friend. It's so hard to take in that for 31 1/2 years our marriage had such deep dark secrets. It was quite a shock to find out that he had been living a double life. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me that he's had an addiction since he was young, even before he knew I existed. He should have warned me he had a problem. Maybe he could have gotten help sooner and maybe the situation would not be where it is today. Oh, I understand he wouldn't have wanted to confess to having such tendencies but I at least deserved the right to know. We are so scared to put our hearts on the line with you guys again.

It is going to take a long time to get to the place that we feel secure. It sounds like you wife is willing to go to counseling and on a marriage retreat with you. I'd say you are a very lucky man that she is still there, let alone willing to try. I felt , at the beginning, that my husband owed me so much. That since I did not take it public, he still had conseqences to bear. I still feel this way somewhat. I'm afraid that if I don't show him how much this has damaged me and our marriage that he might fall back into the trap. This hurt is indescribable. My heart goes out to your wife. I wish you would point her to this forum for her sake especially since she is wanting to get support that she is not alone in her thoughts, her insecurities. Everyone of us knows how she feels. The person who has betrayed us cannot in any way understand the depth that they have cut us. It is so much easier to type out ones frustrations and anger to a stranger. Sometimes its such a relief to get feedback from people who truly know where you're at.

One thing I will say is that on this forum she will get such Godly wisdom from wonderful people. It's amazing to me that people who are hurting will take the time to help another who is in despair. She would truly be lifted up. She needs to be able to talk to people who have been where she is now. She needs to be able to confront her fears. She needs to hear how other people have leaned on God and succeeded. All of us are at different stages of healing. It is a slow process. Believe me, it can become so tiring to have to wake up knowing you have to fight another day. Getting on this site helps so much with the many questions one has gnawing on the mind.

Have unbelieveable patience with her. She is feeling so lost at times. I have started feeling some tenderness for my husband lately. He shows me everyday that he cherishes me. I was so numb for about a year. I learned on this site I cannot push aside the hurt I now am experiencing. She needs to deal with the realities. It's not easy by any means but she will begin to heal once she does this.

Keep bombarding her with sweetness. Take her away on outings, just the two of you. Go on dates. My husband leaves me scriptures in my coffee mug on some mornings before he goes to work to uplift me. I so appreciate these little acts of kindness. Honestly, we believe more in your actions than in your words. Keep letting her know you are there for her no matter what her mood. We don't even know what mood we will be in for the day. We never know what triggers will hit us. Just be there when they do. Always be there for her. Right now, it's all about her. Pamper her to the max. She deserves it. Would she like a pedicure, facial, or the best yet, a swedish massage? They are glorius. They really help relieve stress.

I hope you understand where I am coming from. I know you are fighting the fight too. I will keep you, your wife, and your marriage in prayer. -RJ-

jlc · Newbie Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 17

WoW! Have you been in my home and me not notice. You have described my wife to a tee. Everything you have said are things that she has described to me or that I have observed from her.

I do the best I can to show her I love her. After her most recent trip I placed several balloons around the house and had place a note in each one of them. She had to pop the balloon to get the note. I just had simple affirmation sentences that I made up for her. I tried to let her know how much I continue to love her and how I feel about her spiritually, intellectually and physically. She could not believe this was something that I thought up on my own, so I know she appreciated it. But, she would still make sarcastic, hurtful remarks about several of them.

I have two objections about inviting her to this forum. The first being that we do not have the internet in our home and she is not interested in getting again for quite some time. The only web access we have is when I'm at work (like now), or the occasional trip to her mom's. We don't access the library and she would not want to go somewhere to just spend time on the computer (she has never been that way, unless it was at her mom's).

The second objection I have is that I'm not sure how she will handle me using this forum to discuss our issue and my feelings. Though I guess I should tell her so I'm not keeping additional secrets from her. That's why it's good to have a place to vent, because I just figured that out this very instance. She will probably be upset with me, but I'll explain it the best I can to her.

Thanks for your feedback, Secured.

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