|
|
| Author |
Message |
danielle
Full Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 232
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:22 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Davep,
I'll get more detailed later, but just to answer you quickly, just look to Christ for the ultimate example. A servant-leader.
This is what leadership is all about! Serving, sacrificing. Ephesians 5 talks about what this role entails, by describing Christ's relationship with the Church. The way my pastor also explained in a recent sermon is that the husband looks out for the spiritual welfare of the entire family, by having God 1st, making worship a priority, making sure the children see him treating their mother the way he is supposed to, encouraging his wife in the scriptures, etc.
I'll share more later..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
webacus
Veteran
Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 613
Location: Behind you.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Janine, well put.
Marriage is a symbolic foot washing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Question though, is a wife still expected to submit if the husband is not leading her in Christ? Both are believers, but he is not allowing God to be the head of the marriage. Then what?
|
Not many wives want to hear this, and I don't blame them, but yes, we are still supposed to submit even if they aren't doing thier best. The only exception to that rule is if they are asking us, telling us, or leading us to do something un-biblical (like engage in pornography). In this way, besides pleasing God with our obedience and discipline, we will quietly win over our husbands hearts and they will start to want to change.
Dave, I am going to work on that ad NOW! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
WANTED
Christain Husband. Professional preferred, amateur in training will be accepted. Must be willing to worship, pray to and follow Jesus without shame or substitutions. Must understand God is first, wife is second, children are third and so on. Must love his wife as he loves himself, being able and willing to protect her, support her, and give his life for her. Job responsibilities will be to lead his family in prayer before meals and lead his wife in prayer daily (morning and night preferred, but either will do). Must be willing to sacrifice own selfish desires, extracurricular activities, and laziness at times. Must study the Word of God and be able to share wisdom with the family on a regular basis (scheduling up to you). Will be responsible for the family's attendance at church and continued Christain lifestyle out of church. Must make final, important decisions for his family ALWAYS SEEKING GOD FIRST. Prospective husbands must understand this is a permanent position and will be accountable for decisions and actions to God upon arrival to Heaven. The husbands pay will be unconditional love, support, and help from a wife. Joy, blessings, and sex will also be provided (OT on the husbands part will be paid as triple time). Retirement plan includes full-grown Godly children who will make you and God more proud than you can imagine. :inlove: Serious inquiries only! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danielle
Full Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 232
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Great ad! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Davep
Veteran
Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Excellant! 
Well written and captures the fundamental nature and quality of a spiritual leader who is also a husband. You have expressed clearly what it is, to be a spiritual leader, so that someone else would understand, in human terms. Also it comes from your understanding and learning, not from some pre-packaged definition.
If you can't explain something in your own words that someone else can understand, and if all you can do is parrot bible verses or something a preacher has said, then I think we miss the point of what God has us here to learn.
As disciples we are chartered to spread the word and explain it's meaning in human terms without adding to or changing the meaning of the original.
Every church has a "Statement of Faith", it would be interest to see how many have "What it is to be the Spiritual Leader of your Family". But then the next question goes begging Why don't men become spiritual leaders on their own? or How do you get men from point "A" to point "B"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kelly
Full Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2002
Posts: 232
Location: Long Island, NY
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Why don't men become spiritual leaders on their own? or How do you get men from point "A" to point "B"? |
In my opinion most men have an innate desire to lead. Men tend to be stronger, more confrontational, more work oriented, and so on. Meanwhile I believe woman have the innate desire to be lead, be a homemaker, a mother and so on. I would get gutted by feminists for this, but deep inside I believe it is true. In different situations, for different reasons there are women who are succeeding better than some men in the workplace and men who just have no ambition, but those are the rare. I believe God designed us this way for a reason. The whole "submit to your husband" thing came about b/c of Eve's weakness after being well informed. Adam had no problem staying away from the tree before Eve came along. Eve calculated and intentionally ate the fruit, getting Adam to join her in her sin. In this way Adam was stronger in following directions and being obedient. After this incident is when God gave men authority over women. His intention was to avoid any further sinning caused by women. Now, of course men are not innocent and woman are not heathens, but something in our nature as women apparently needs to be in check and men apparently have what it takes to lead us and keep us in check. This sounds harsh, but it is to the point and the basic overall plan. Of course us woman have gifts, strengths and abilities that men don't and that are just as important as men's gifts, strengths and abilities, that is why we are to be "helpers", not inferior slaves. I have learned from experience that God's order for the home works better than I first thought it would. Jay does have a better grip on his emotions (as most men do) and being that I don't do anything important without him, he keeps me from acting on emotions. I am a better student so I "help" him study the Word and then he is better able to run the family in accordance with God's Word. Am I making any sense? How many have I offended? :inlove: Now why don't men take this initiative? I believe b/c of the fact that men just don't mature as fast as women do. Men are still wanting to play with "toys", go out with thier friends and such, while women are wanting to make a home. It is quite common to have the GF in a relationship be ready for marraige much sooner than the BF. There comes a time when, out of love for his woman, a man chooses to leave behind childish things and start becoming a husband and father. I don't think this happens all that naturally. It is more of a sacrifice for a man than for a woman. It just seems to take a man a little longer. Now to get from point A to point B usually takes love for his woman, reciprocated love from his woman, and prayer. Godly male friends who are a few steps ahead also help as mentors and examples. Have I offended anyone else? Whew, this is a difficult topic! :inlove: Overall "Love bears all things" and this gets us all where we need to be! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Davep
Veteran
Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Adam had no problem staying away from the tree before Eve came along. Eve calculated and intentionally ate the fruit, getting Adam to join her in her sin. In this way Adam was stronger in following directions and being obedient. After this incident is when God gave men authority over women |
Wow there is a can of worms in there
While we don't know what was going through Adam's mind about the tree, it appears he was willing to watch her go for the tree. He didn't make any attempts to stop her. Adam used Eve as a guinea pig to check out what would happen. Maybe Adam felt Eve was expendable, maybe he felt God would replace her, and give him a new one; who knows. The fact is he didn't do anything to stop her, and when the coast looked clear, he ate the fruit on his own too.
The classic quote from Adam is "That woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." This is the first recorded cop-out, later used by a US President.
Also, I don't know if Adam was stronger or more obediant, but rather crafty in waiting to see what would happen to Eve first before he tried it. Also I think God created women for Adam as his trusty helper or co-worker, which God did before they both screwed up.
| Quote: | | Now to get from point A to point B usually takes love for his woman, reciprocated love from his woman, and prayer. Godly male friends who are a few steps ahead also help as mentors and examples. |
You have hit the core reason why christian men don't lead. Most women look for female solutions to male problems, the solution for men to change is to have other male christian role models to see, and the pastor is not one of them. Men pattern their behavior after other regular men, not women. Men are challenged to lead and do what it takes when they hang out with other christian men who lead. And this goes for all men, they need to be in fellowship with other men, even if they are good leaders already. Any sharp man can and will go dull.
God works through other people, when we pray for help, always remember to keep your eyes open for the solutions God sends. Prayers are answered with suggestions, we still need to act on them. God doesn't do our homework for us.
:blush: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SAM
Veteran
Joined: 03 Mar 2001
Posts: 2170
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | You have hit the core reason why christian men don't lead. Most women look for female solutions to male problems, the solution for men to change is to have other male christian role models to see, and the pastor is not one of them. Men pattern their behavior after other regular men, not women. Men are challenged to lead and do what it takes when they hang out with other christian men who lead. And this goes for all men, they need to be in fellowship with other men, even if they are good leaders already. Any sharp man can and will go dull.
|
You hit this right on the head Dave. I became a Christian two years before my husband. I believe because I had to take the lead in our home for a time, I struggled for a long, long time with submission to my husband. Amazingly, once I said, "OK God, this is in your hands, no longer mine", He did amazing things is growing my husband up in Him.
It is a partnership for us. It is encouraging one another in our growth with the Lord. It is discussing what is best for each of us and the kids. We hold each other accountable for our time with God each day. We hold each other up when we fall. As a woman, it is not laying down and rolling over to everything my husband wants me to do. He loves me and sacrifices for me. He serves me as Jesus served us. He is willing to listen to the Spirit's promptings and acting on them no matter how uncomfortable it may make him.
For me, my submission to my husband, is listening to him and giving him respect for his decisions. It is not belittling him and tearing him down. God knocked me against the head a couple of years ago when we were preparing to speak to a group of people together. I kept feeling we should go in one direction and my husband felt we should go in the other. We battled, I cried and my husband finally said, "Look I really feel this is the direction God is taking us." Once, I was willing to back down and listen, God took over. Most of the time, what conflict we do have, is because I am not willing to back down and listen. I truly feel we are at a point where God gives my husband a great deal of direction. To me that is what God wants for us in submitting to our husbands.
I do not feel my husband has to be the "spiritual leader" of our home too. This is a job we share together. At times God calls me to step forward and other times my husband. Again, it is a partnership. But, I need to be there to hold him up always. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danielle
Full Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 232
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are several reasons why men don't lead! I actually went to a seminar earlier this year on this topic (Why men don't lead, why women don't follow), and plan to read the book with this same title as well.
Davep,
"If you can't explain something in your own words that someone else can understand, and if all you can do is parrot bible verses or something a preacher has said, then I think we miss the point of what God has us here to learn."
I hope you weren't directing this comment at my post. It's always possible to explain something in your own words, but there is nothing wrong with stating what you heard in a recent sermon if you happen to agree with it, or directing someone to a book of the Bible that exactly tells you what a certian role should reflect. I was going to further add my own thoughts later, but just wanted to jump in with those comments at that moment. If it wasn't directed at me, I apologize
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Davep
Veteran
Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I hope you weren't directing this comment at my post. |
Danielle
No, it was a general statement, and was in no way direct at you. We do pick up great stuff from others, that we are excited about. You have always expressed yourself as yourself. My comment was directed at christians who don't think for themselves and who have become christian zombies
I am looking forward toward your comments on what you feel the qualities of a spiritual leader are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
