Independence and Marriage

HopefulInCO · Newbie Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 2

Hi. I’m new here in the forums, but not new to Growthtrac. This is my first post, and I’m sorry, but it may be long. So here goes…

A little background first…

Over the past several months my wife has not been very intimate (physically, emotionally, or spiritually) with me. She doesn’t touch me much; she seems to walk around me when we pass in the house, and I feel like I’m being pushed away when I try to kiss her when I leave for work or when I come home. I talked to her about this and she says that she’s an independent person and can’t meet my needs. She tells me it’s nothing I’ve done, it’s just her.

We nearly had a falling out about 7 months ago (partly because of the same thing) so we went to counseling and even went to one of Gary Smalley’s DNA of Relationship seminars and bought some of his relationship books. After reading his books, I realized what I had been doing wrong and not been doing at all (and it was quite a bit) and made the decision to change. She started reading the books, but gave up after a short while. Things seemed to start coming back together for about 1-2 months, but then she started going back to her old self again, so here I am.

Now…

I’m having a little trouble accepting my wife’s insistence on being independent. We have been married for 15 years and she hasn’t been this way the whole time, but lately she says that’s who she is and who she has always been because, according to her, she grew up in a home that wasn’t very close so she had to take care of herself a lot as a child.

Now I don’t have a problem with a little independence… I think we all need it from time to time. But, scripture tells us in Ephesians 5:31, “the two shall become one flesh” and I believe that is stated elsewhere as well. To me, a marriage is not about independence, but ONEness, including God.

And because of her independence, she says she can’t meet my needs. I don’t know if it’s she can’t or won’t, but I’m very concerned about it. Again, scripture tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:2-4, “Let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.”

Ok, now I realize that I am to depend on God to fulfill my needs and to only expect Him to give me joy, peace and happiness and everything else is overflow, or bonus (and my wife is aware that I try to live this way). I believe that He will, but lately I have been having trouble trusting Him for some reason because my wife does not seem to even be trying. I’ve been trying to work on my lack of trust in Him too.

I also read daily from Stormie Omartian’s “The Power of a Praying Husband – Book of Prayers” and one of them that relates to Her Emotions states “Although I’m aware that I cannot meet my wife’s every emotional need, I know that You can. I am not trying to absolve myself from meeting any of her needs, but I know that some of them are intended to be met only by You.” Could my wife feel that she isn’t responsible for meeting any of my needs since she knows that I try to look to God for meeting my needs?

Someone please help me with this but, doesn’t the wife have a responsibility, biblically, to be there for the husband? I have been doing my best (remember, I’m human and fault from time to time) to show my wife I honor her, love her, and respect her. I’m not trying to be selfish and I know I’m not supposed to expect anything in return for what I do for her (it’s all out of unconditional love, right), but I’m human and I’m really starting to get depressed feeling like I’m being ignored and that I don’t matter and am unimportant to her.

Thank you in advance for any and all advice.

LatinPapiInChrist · Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 1

I can fully relate as to what you are and have been going through my brother. My wife now has been through the same thing just recently and I have to say it was never easy from beginning to end, but ultimately she has seen God's love through me because there wouldn't have been another man to have stood by her to tolerate the abuse I have. I'd like to say a few thing regarding marriage that I have come to understand and it is nothing dealing with how I feel about it, and everything to do with the truth. God's truth. When we get married we make a "Choice" to create a covenant with God and that means it is an agreement that we should not break no matter what we are going through and in keeping the agreement ones progression will come with a price. The price of Pain to help allow one to grow and mature as a victorious christian. I explained this to my wife and she has seen the light that way, fortunately for me. Perhaps if your wife can understand this concept and truth in part of walking in the spirit perhaps she will realize that in order to please God she has to follow Gods formulas to plz him and that would include doing what wives are suppose to do in a marriage. Likewise the husband. This is not a dictatorship mind you. We as husbands has more responsibilities then the wives and she has to see that no matter what she thinks or feels my friend. It won't be easy especially if she calls herself being complacent in her ways. As I mentioned it won't be an easy task, however, it is never impossible to accomplish in terms of making your situation work no matter how dark it may seem or feel at the moment. I say keep the faith, keep walking in the spirit and call upon Jehovah Nissi to fight this battle that you are going through. So long as you are doing your part in establishing that foundation that God has given us the authority to establish as head of household. Do alot of talking and praying together. I found it effective when my storm was hitting home. Remember that it is one thing to listen or just reading the word, you have to do the do. Be a doer and not a hearer. I realize that when one DOES the word it is like a person building a house on a solid rock and when storms hit, no matter how hard, it will withstand, but when one is just going through the motions and just listening and reading during service then turn around and takes off the armor and shield of righteousness it is like a person building a house on sand and when storms hit it sinks and destroys finding no means of salvaging because the foundation was never created properly. I pray that the comments I made helps shed some knowledge to you my brother. Never ever give up, and continue to show her unconditional love as a husband should. I pray all goes well for you. God bless.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1989 Location: Chicago

Welcome and we're glad you posted with us. I also appreciate your openess about the situation at home.

It appears that there are many underlying things going on within your relationship that I cannot possibly help you dig into. If things are not working sexually, spiritually, emotionally, etc. then counseling should continue. If not the both of you, then for yourself.

I've found in my marriage, if the spiritual piece is not really together, then the sexual, emotional, etc. doesn't line up either. Some things to consider: 1) do you pray together? 2) listen to worship music in the house, in the car, at work - anywhere you can. 3) how are you serving each other? 4) are you connected to a local church? 5) do you have people who are you board of directors for your marriage? Will they hold you both accountable? 6) take some long walks if you can, hold hands and talk to her about how you are feeling and how you see God helping you through this 7) Do you speak words of love - praising, loving, building each other up, or do you tear down with words that sting and criticize?

Perhaps, plan a long weekend get-a-way with just the two of you and take the time to talk and connect as you feel you need to. Do not make this weekend about sex. Cuddle, love, speak her Love Language - not yours. Does she like gifts, love notes, flowers, candles, soaking in a tub, sparkling cider, chocolates, strawberries, foot massages, head rubs, and whatever you can think of. (Gary Chapman - The Five Love Languages another great book if you haven't read it. ) As a woman, I know I need to feel cherished and protected by my husband. I know he needs to feel respected.

God is a God of miracles and do-overs. He can restore a marriage. It takes one of you to take the first step. There is more to the picture and your wife is communicating a message of - "I've checked out".

I pray you can find some peace and trust in God to get you through this. He will - He does not let you walk alone through this stuff. I heard a great analogy of marriage being a garden - if you let it go on its own without care, water and nutrients, it will turn into weeds. It needs to be carefully tended to with a little pruning, water, food, and loving care to bloom into what you want it to be.

You've hit on some great scripture, but I think Dr. Kevin Lehman (Sheet Music) hits us right between the eyes with the following:

A sexually fulfilled husband is a scriptural mandate -
In 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 the apostle Paul writes: "The husband should fulfill
his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The
wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the
same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

I didn't get this for a long time until I read - Every Heart Restored by Steven Arterburn.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1989 Location: Chicago

Welcome LatinPapiInChrist -

Some great advice from someone who has been there in your relationship. I guess I was posting at the same time you were before and did not catch your post in advance.

I especially love the part about being a Doer and not a Hearer. That is great!

Sometimes it goes back to Matthew 7:3 - And why worry about a speck of sawdust in your friend's eye, when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, "Let me help you get rid of the speck in your eye", when you can't see past the log in your own?

When things have been difficult in my marriage, it has more to do with the condition of my heart (log in my eye) or sin, than my husband's. It really is all about my own selfishness, forgetfulness, or unwillingness to serve my husband with the love of Christ.

HopefulInCO · Newbie Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 2

Thank you LatinPapi and SAM for you thoughts and comments.

To answer some of SAM's "things to consider"...

1) I have asked her on numerous occasions for her to pray with me before we go to sleep. She has done this once with me and every time I say to her that I'd really like to pray together she says "Yes, I know."

2) We used to listen to KLOVE all the time, but now we alternate between that and country music. I like country music too because a lot of it has Christian themes and messages.

3) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "How are you serving each other?" but I do everything I can to make her feel like she is honored and loved. Please be more specific in this... thanks.

4) We are both very active members in our church. She sings in the chior and worship teams and I do a lot of the sound mixing for our worship services. We are also members together of a small bible study group that tries to meet once a week. All the other members are couples with children just like us.

5) We have no board of directors for our marriage. This is one of the things suggested in one of the books I read my Mr. Smalley. I have not suggested it to my wife because I don't think she'd go for it; she really doesn't seem interested in things that will expand our marriage.

6) Once it starts to warm up, I will give this a go. Not only would it be good for the both of us relationally, but physically as well. It's a little chilly here at the moment to take walks. Smile

7) I believe we both do our best to speak in ways that build up. However, when I tell her how I feel about things she is doing, she seems to get defensive and I then feel like my feelings don't matter at all. I know some things are my fault and I take the blame for those and apologize.

We took a long weekend a few months ago and it was nice. We spent a lot of time walking around window shopping and just enjoying each others company. I have tried to get her to tell me exactly what her love language is, but she says she doesn’t know so how can she tell me. In one book by Mr. Smalley, “Hidden Keys of a Loving, Lasting Marriage,” there are a couple of lists that I have tried to get her to talk to me about. One is 100 Ways to Love Your Wife Her Way and the other is regarding ways I have offended her in the past. Some of them I can look at and say, yeah, I’ve done that. Others I’m just lost. If she won’t talk to me about them and tell me what I’m doing wrong, how can I improve? So I just do the best that I can to make her feel that I cherish her and that she is important to me. A couple of weeks ago she told me I make her feel too important. I’m at my wits end.

LatinPapi, I thank you for your insightful comments. I am trying my best to be a doer, but I feel lately that I’m the only doer. A relationship takes two (plus God)… not one. If it weren’t for my faith and what I believe, I would have walked out on this long ago. But I believe God put us together for a purpose and it is not our decision to take apart what He put together. So I stay the course and keep praying that He will fix things.

My wife also tells me she loves me because no one else would tolerate what I have to put up with (I can totally relate to what you said). But is that the only reason she loves me? Shouldn’t she love me for who I am, not for who or what I put up with?

I completely agree with your analogy of building on a foundation. I do my best in my limited human capacity to live the word and keep my house on solid rock. Occasionally I feel as though it’s starting to slip away, but I always seem to find my way back. I thank God I have Him to carry me through these trials.

And in no way am I saying that I am perfect. I am a sinful human being just like the rest of us. I know I have a log in my eye and I have been trying to ask my wife to help me get rid of it (based on ways that I offend her, but like I said earlier, she doesn’t seem to want to help me to know how to love her better her way).

Again, thank you both for your comments and suggestions. I will do my best to apply and/or adapt those to what I have been doing. I pray to God everyday that He help me to be less selfish and that I live according to His will in all this. I also pray for His patience that I can wait for things to happen in His time and not mine.

I will be meeting with our pastor next week to talk with him about my spiritual battle I’ve been going through and not being able to let God fulfill these needs.

SAM · Veteran Joined: 03 Mar 2001 Posts: 1989 Location: Chicago

Serving is giving of yourself without expecting anything in return. Doing with a giving heart can just be the simple things of every day life. For my husband, it means fixing him lunch when he is home, or making him anything chocolate. It means giving him touches, hugs or kisses (physical touch) that speak to him.

For me, if he cleans up without me asking or makes the bed in the morning, I love that! I was in a hotel recently where I overheard a conversation where a young man was telling a friend, he never used to hear his children cry when they were little. It would make his wife so angry. He now tries to tune in and get up with them and let her sleep in a little. He said she just loves him for that!! How about cooking your wife a meal? Small gifts or flowers without a reason. Taking her car to get it washed an vaccumed out, or an oil change.

As for your bible study group, can you and your wife make an appointment with the leaders to talk with them about what is going on in your marriage? These should be the people to go to with this issue.

As for praying, ask her to write down her prayers on a piece of paper or index card and you pray them for her. Even if she does not want to pray herself, you can still pray for the both of you.

Being active members of a church is a great thing as we are called to be part of a community. Serving God with the right motivation is important. For myself, I used to believe it would earn me points toward getting into heaven. I now know I'll never be good enough to earn my way, or have enough points. I know the thing that changed my marriage around was learning that Christ paid the price because we weren't good enough. We believed in God, but never really knew what having a personal relationship meant. When we were willing to say "Yes, God" instead of 'No, God", that made a huge difference. We both came to Christ to ask Him to be the leader of our lives and the forgiver of our sins. Has a defining moment like that occurred in your lives?

Listening to country music is not a problem, in fact, I love Martina McBride.
Have you heard the song God's Will??? Randy Travis is coming to our church next month (our pastor loves country). I still keep Christian music on most of the time, but mix other stuff in too - still being very aware of garbage in, garbage out.

When you tell her things she is doing, it's all in the delivery. As an example - ' You are not giving me ..... ", "You have to do this more often.....", "You never.....", "You make me...." - Leave the "you" out of the sentence. It goes over much better if the sentence starts with, "I need more affection in our marriage and this just means holding hands together on the couch and maybe some kisses too" or " I need to feel that I am connected to you and God." or " I would like to spend more time doing fun things together." or "How can I help alleviate stress for us?" or "What do I need to give up ( time at work, hobbies, TV time, computer time, etc.) that would make you feel more important in our marriage?" (That is a dangerous question to ask, but sometimes a necessary one to ask which may result in brutal honesty.)

Hope I have given you some more insight. I will continue to pray for you and your wife. Let us know how things are going.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

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